# Fiction, Trauma, and Children **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [October 5, 2023, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130 "2023-10-05T03:32:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130/101 "2023-10-06T18:23:15Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Aren’t doctors and lawyers lumped in with professional degrees?. They are, but how can anyone be expected to pass up such a wonderful opportunity to shit on liberal arts majors? Anyways, the second chart at this link implies that median income is pretty close for all majors. STEM is somewhat higher but the chart doesn’t control for what portion of people went on to get a master’s degree which I presume would be higher for STEM. There certainly isn’t a very significant difference between liberal arts and business. > **[Best Private Student Loans Of 2025](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/best-private-student-loans/)** > > Paying for college can be stressful and requires considerable financial planning. After using savings, scholarships and grants to pay for tuition and fees, you may still need more funds to cover college expenses. Student loans may be your next best... ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130/102 "2023-10-06T18:28:35Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > A bachelor’s degree in literature And that brings us right back to the thread topic! I’d suggest that modern fiction for kids deals pretty heavily in death, from _Harry Potter_ with its multiple traumatic murders, to _A Series of Unfortunate Events_ where “die in a fire” is the first in a long series, to _Sal and Gabi Break the Universe_ where the MacGuffin is primarily a way to explore the grief of losing a parent, to Percy Jackson where kids are killed in the course of fighting against Titans. Disney is its own thing, and I got all the feels (well, all the salty feels) about Disney’s effects on children’s stories. But outside of Disney, in the world of middle-grade fiction, traumatic death is alive and well. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130/103 "2023-10-06T18:33:05Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’d suggest that modern fiction for kids deals pretty heavily in death, from _Harry Potter_ with its multiple traumatic murders, to _A Series of Unfortunate Events_ where “die in a fire” is the first in a long series, to _Sal and Gabi Break the Universe_ where the MacGuffin is primarily a way to explore the grief of losing a parent, to Percy Jackson where kids are killed in the course of fighting against Titans. For the most part, people don’t seem to be that concerned when it comes to books. (Ignoring the current cultural war over the acknowledgment of gay people or racism in anything a kid might read.) Almost ever book I read as a child had more mature content than I woud have seen in a typical episode of GI Joe or He-Man. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130/104 "2023-10-06T18:42:23Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > As soon as the infant can speak he or she is taught to sing Ma Nishtana. There are picture books depicting whips and blood and disease. > > I’m sure there are similar things in Christian families… Well, I was singing hymns in Latin before I could read in English. No idea what I was singing exactly. Just finished a book about Val Lewton, and the final fifth or so of the book was about movies and moviemakers influenced by Lewton. One film he mentioned was _Invaders from Mars_, and that was one movie that did a number on my head when I was little. I think it was partly because no matter where that poor kid ran he found danger from adults. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130/105 "2023-10-06T18:45:32Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I mean, I’ve never heard of a parent censoring the bible. Me and my siblings were singing songs about slavery of our ancestors long before watching _Bambi_. As soon as the infant can speak he or she is taught to sing Ma Nishtana. There are picture books depicting whips and blood and disease. That’s interesting. It certainly wasn’t my experience. For example, I remember a cassette tape about the Noah story I had as a child, and it didn’t mention the part where Noah gets shitfaced and passes out naked, then one of his sons makes fun of him and gets cursed forever while the others walk backwards and cover him up. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130/106 "2023-10-06T19:02:09Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > For the most part, people don’t seem to be that concerned when it comes to books. True–but the movies based directly on books don’t tend to soften them. Ignoring travesties like _The Tale of Despereaux_, which is based on the book in the same way that Alpo is based on foie gras, most kids-book-adaptations go hard. I think all the deaths in the Harry Potter series show up in the movies. _A Series of Unfortunate Events_ showed up on Netflix very much like it showed up on the written page. I’ve neither read nor seen _Are You There, God? It’s Me, Margaret_, but from all accounts the film doesn’t soften any of the emotional rockiness of the book. Yeah, there are turkeys out there. And yeah, Disney’s gonna Disney. But I don’t think kids are avoiding trauma in the entertainment they enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130/107 "2023-10-06T19:03:28Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I mean, I’ve never heard of a parent censoring the bible. I absolutely have censored the Bible for my kiddos. My older one is old enough that she can take the rapes and the impersonation as a prostitute so your father-in-law will impregnate you and offering your child to be gang-raped and the mass murders etc., but my younger one… yeah, we don’t do that stuff. On a different non-traumatic note, we’re doing the Pauline epistles right now and there’s a lot of heavy theology in some parts, some of which I also “censor”/take out, because younger kiddo is not gonna get anything out of that at all. (I’ve kept in things like, “Wives, submit to your husbands,” just so I can then talk to kiddos about how this is not a thing that I do or believe in.) ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130/108 "2023-10-06T19:12:33Z")
Wouldn’t you daughters be well served to understand the Bible. So when some idiot tells her “The Bible say so” she can say “The Bible was written and translated in very different times, and those rules are generally not applicable in this situation”. Instead of- “my Mom says she don’t believe that” ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130/109 "2023-10-06T19:24:02Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Wouldn’t you daughters be well served to understand the Bible. So when some idiot tells her “The Bible say so” she can say “The Bible was written and translated in very different times, and those rules are generally not applicable in this situation”. Instead of- “my Mom says she don’t believe that”. Do your kids need to know the teachings of Quetzlcoatl so they can say something similar? ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130/110 "2023-10-06T19:36:04Z")
Couldn’t hurt. Being well read is the secret to knowledge. Understanding many belief systems and cultures helps you make informed decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130/111 "2023-10-06T19:39:52Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’d suggest that modern fiction for kids deals pretty heavily in death, from _Harry Potter_ with its multiple traumatic murders, to _A Series of Unfortunate Events_ where “die in a fire” is the first in a long series, to _Sal and Gabi Break the Universe_ where the MacGuffin is primarily a way to explore the grief of losing a parent, to Percy Jackson where kids are killed in the course of fighting against Titans. Or _the Hunger Games_. JFC. I read that as an adult and I couldn’t believe how brutal it was. No sex, of course, heaven forfend, but a sixteen year old being devoured by dogs? No problemo. ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130/112 "2023-10-06T19:41:31Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > > > I was hoping for an updated version in which the hunters meet a grisly end. > > > > Maybe call it _Bambo!_ > > When does Bambi go into the public domain? Someone could make a movie that’s identical to Bambi, until the bit where his mom is shot and he meets his dead. This time we get an elaborate training montage as Bambi and his forest friends prepare to take revenge on the hunters. Bambi trains all winter, and in spring as the forest awakens he prepares to reap his bloody vengence upon the humans encroaching on the forest. > > Call it _Bambo: Wild Hunt_. You’re in luck! The Felix Salten book entered public domain in 2022 - go nuts! Just be sure you’re not lifting any characterizations that are identifiably Disney-specific, and you’re good to go. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130/113 "2023-10-06T20:10:56Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > it didn’t mention the part where Noah gets shitfaced and passes out naked, then one of his sons makes fun of him and gets cursed forever while the others walk backwards and cover him up. I don’t remember when exactly I first heard it (and paid attention), but it’s not like my parents kept me at home during that parsha reading & sermon. There’s only 54 parshas so roughly every year the entire Torah was read to us. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130/114 "2023-10-06T20:29:39Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I don’t remember when exactly I first heard it (and paid attention), but it’s not like my parents kept me at home during that parsha reading & sermon. There’s only 54 parshas so roughly every year the entire Torah was read to us. Not only did I go to synagogue as a kid, I went to synagogue as a kid _in Israel_, where everyone actually understands the parasha being read. And I can guarantee you that not one kid was actually paying close enough attention to what was being read to pick up on that part of the story. Starting in 2nd grade I actually had a Bible class in school, starting with Genesis; and we definitely didn’t talk about this story. I actually remember noticing at the time that we were skipping around, but at 7 even if Hebrew is your native tongue you’re not making any sense of these passages unless the teacher is talking through them. It wasn’t until my teens, when I started to get bored in synagogue and read ahead, that I actually started coming across these sorts of stories while paying enough attention to internalize them. I **highly** doubt that American preteen kids who don’t speak Hebrew are playing closer attention to the Parsha reading than I was. And the material that’s actually directed **at** kids is absolutely sanitized. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130/115 "2023-10-06T20:31:57Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Do your kids need to know the teachings of Quetzlcoatl so they can say something similar? With respect, we don’t live in a society where Quetzlcoatle, continues to feature prominently in our culture. You’re presenting a false equivalency here. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130/116 "2023-10-06T20:33:09Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > Do your kids need to know the teachings of Quetzlcoatl so they can say something similar? > > With respect, we don’t live in a society where Quetzlcoatle, continues to feature prominently in our culture. You’re presenting a false equivalency here Fine - how closely do your kids need to know the teachings of Muhammad? What about L Ron Hubbard? Or Joseph Smith? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130/117 "2023-10-06T20:41:28Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Fine - how closely do your kids need to know the teachings of Muhammad? What about L Ron Hubbard? Or Joseph Smith? Honestly, I think it’s a pretty good idea for children to get some idea of what the religious teachings of major religions are. Islam is a fast growing religion here in the United States, and it’s probably a good idea for kids to understand what some of their major tenants are. I’m not sure if the same could be said for Mormons or Scientology but maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130/118 "2023-10-06T20:48:36Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Honestly, I think it’s a pretty good idea for children to get some idea of what the religious teachings of major religions are. Islam is a fast growing religion here in the United States, and it’s probably a good idea for kids to understand what some of their major tenants are. I agree - it’s good to be a good neighbor. > [@Odesio](#): > > I’m not sure if the same could be said for Mormons I think the same applies. They do have a lot of rules that you could accidentally insult by offering soda, coffee, alcohol, etc. > [@Odesio](#): > > or Scientology It’s useful to know to avoid a cult that wants your money. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130/119 "2023-10-06T20:59:38Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Honestly, I think it’s a pretty good idea for children to get some idea of what the religious teachings of major religions are. Islam is a fast growing religion here in the United States, and it’s probably a good idea for kids to understand what some of their major tenants are. I’m not sure if the same could be said for Mormons or Scientology but maybe. **Spouse Weasel** was a Catholic school boy and he learned about all this stuff. I, however, did not. Public school education for you. I think it left me at somewhat of a disadvantage. For one thing, I was an evangelical Christian for a good chunk of my adolescence, and one of the things that prompted me to start questioning my beliefs was learning, quite late in adolescence, that there are more people on the planet who believe something other than Christianity than there are people who believe in Christianity. That kinda blew my mind. I’ll go out on a limb and say you can’t properly engage with your own faith unless you can contextualize it with other religions. Now how/when those subjects are introduced during childhood is another matter… my kid’s not learning about Jesus or the Bible until he has a much firmer grasp on abstract concepts. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130/120 "2023-10-06T22:14:10Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > And I can guarantee you that not one kid was actually paying close enough attention to what was being read to pick up on that part of the story. Maybe we have different experiences. My synagogue - in Florida - had very few children. Nothing was specifically directed at the children except certain songs (in Hebrew). Also, our rabbi followed each reading with an English-language sermon on the themes. One of which, I distinctly remember, was that the ‘heroes’ in the Torah all had major flaws. For example Moses threw down the stones in rage, and Aaron worshiped the calf, and Noah got himself drunk. There were three students in my shul including me and my younger brother. I remember the old rabbi would only instruct us in Hebrew specifically, not theology. The rest came from paying attention to services and talking with members of the congregation, though when it came time for my bar-mitzvah the new rabbi worked with me on my parsha. I think I was the first bar-mitzvah in the twenty-first century. ~Max [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-trauma-and-children/991130.md?page=7)