# Fiction which is misrepresented in pop culture **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 23, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683 "2013-06-23T03:17:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683/61 "2013-06-26T23:02:46Z")
A popular image of _Hamlet_ is the title character holding up a skull while reciting “To be, or not to be…”. In fact, the skull doesn’t appear until two acts after the monologue. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683/62 "2013-06-26T23:07:02Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > “The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers” Most people who quote it know it’s from Shakespeare, but not which play or the context. It’s not Shakespeare having a jab at the legal profession, but a bad guy saying that’s the first thing a bad prospective king should do. Shakespeare is supporting the lawyers. Not necessarily without the knowledge of how his audience would react, since he was the consummate pop writer of his day. While it’s true that the textual reading supports lawyers, I imagine audiences went wild with approval when they actually heard it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683/63 "2013-06-26T23:24:08Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Deliverance is a lot more than Dueling Banjos and Squeal like a pig. Well, no, not a **lot** more. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683/64 "2013-06-26T23:26:13Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > “The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers” Most people who quote it know it’s from Shakespeare, but not which play or the context. It’s not Shakespeare having a jab at the legal profession, but a bad guy saying that’s the first thing a bad prospective king should do. Shakespeare is supporting the lawyers. And the second thing they want to do is kill everybody who can read and write. [Henry VI, Part 2,](http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext98/2ws0210.txt) Act IV, Scene 2: > [@](#): > > [Drum. Enter CADE, DICK the Butcher, SMITH the Weaver, > and a Sawyer, with infinite numbers.] > > CADE. > We John Cade, so term’d of our supposed father,– > > DICK. > [Aside.] Or rather, of stealing a cade of herrings. > > CADE. > For our enemies shall fall before us, inspired with the > spirit of putting down kings and princes,–Command silence. > > DICK. > Silence! > > CADE. > My father was a Mortimer,– > > DICK. > [Aside.] He was an honest man and a good bricklayer. > > CADE. > My mother a Plantagenet,– > > DICK. > [Aside.] I knew her well; she was a midwife. > > CADE. > My wife descended of the Lacies,– > > DICK. > [Aside.] She was, indeed, a pedler’s daughter, and sold > many laces. > > SMITH. > [Aside.] But now of late, not able to travel with her > furred pack, she washes bucks here at home. > > CADE. > Therefore am I of an honourable house. > > DICK. > [Aside.] Ay, by my faith, the field is honourable; and > there was he born, under a hedge, for his father had never a > house but > the cage. > > CADE. > Valiant I am. > > SMITH. > [Aside.] A’ must needs; for beggary is valiant. > > CADE. > I am able to endure much. > > DICK. > [Aside.] No question of that; for I have seen him whipped > three market-days together. > > CADE. > I fear neither sword nor fire. > > SMITH. > [Aside.] He need not fear the sword, for his coat is of > proof. > > DICK. > [Aside.] But methinks he should stand in fear of fire, > being burnt i’ the hand for stealing of sheep. > > CADE. > Be brave, then; for your captain is brave, and vows > reformation. There shall be in England seven halfpenny loaves > sold for a penny; the three-hooped pot shall have ten hoops; and > I will make it felony to drink small beer. All the realm shall be > in common; and in Cheapside shall my palfry go to grass; and > when I am king, as king I will be,– > > ALL. > God save your majesty! > > CADE. > I thank you, good people;–there shall be no money; all shall > eat and drink on my score, and I will apparel them all in one > livery, that they may agree like brothers and worship me their > lord. > > **DICK. > The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers.** > > CADE. > Nay, that I mean to do. Is not this a lamentable thing, that > of the skin of an innocent lamb should be made parchment, that > parchment, being scribbl’d o’er, should undo a man? Some say the > bee stings; but I say 't is the bee’s wax, for I did but seal > once to a thing, and I was never mine own man since.–How now! > who’s there? > > [Enter some, bringing in the Clerk of Chatham.] > > SMITH. > The clerk of Chatham; he can write and read and cast > accompt. > > CADE. > O monstrous! > SMITH. > We took him setting of boys’ copies. > > CADE. > Here’s a villain! > > SMITH. > Has a book in his pocket with red letters in 't. > > CADE. > Nay, then, he is a conjurer. > > DICK. > Nay, he can make obligations and write court-hand. > > CADE. > I am sorry for 't. > The man is a proper man, of mine honour; > unless I find him guilty, he shall not die.–Come hither, sirrah, > I must examine thee; what is thy name? > > CLERK. > Emmanuel. > > DICK. > They use to write it on the top of letters.–'T will go > hard with you. > > CADE. > Let me alone.–Dost thou use to write thy name? or hast > thou a mark to thyself, like a honest, plain-dealing man? > > CLERK. > Sir, I thank God, I have been so well brought up that I > can write my name. > > ALL. > He hath confess’d; away with him! he’s a villain and a > traitor. > > CADE. > Away with him, I say! hang him with his pen and inkhorn > about his neck. > > [Exit one with the Clerk.] ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683/65 "2013-06-26T23:30:58Z")
> [@Flywheel](#): > > A popular image of _Hamlet_ is the title character holding up a skull while reciting “To be, or not to be…”. In fact, the skull doesn’t appear until two acts after the monologue. Is it really? I’ve never connected the two scenes in my mind. Is this an actual image that is out there? ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683/66 "2013-06-26T23:44:28Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Is it really? I’ve never connected the two scenes in my mind. Is this an actual image that is out there? Can’t think of any film/TV clips offhand, but here’s an [actual image](http://www.examiner.com/article/david-tennant-s-hamlet-honored-by-royal-mail-postage-stamp). ETA: [see also](http://books.google.com/books?id=39GF04z20KQC&pg=PA23&lpg=PA23&dq=%22to+run+on+may+3rd%22&source=bl&ots=TBuytyqMec&sig=NaWIpnAy7xapEt4yUFX9YTCvQro&hl=en&sa=X&ei=On3LUZe-E4ra0QH3poCABQ&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22to%20run%20on%20may%203rd%22&f=false) ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683/67 "2013-06-27T00:14:50Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Don’t get me started. There’s no Igor (or Fritz), no castle, no “Abnormal Brain – do not use”, or a lot of the other standard tropes. > > On the other hand, Universal pictures DID create a unique and immediately recognizable image with that flat-topped and bolt-necked Monster, regardless of how non-canonical it is. So why complain? This one’s a little more minor, but the Monster isn’t just a collection of gross pieces of anatomy sewed together. In the book, it describes how Frankenstein creates him (it?) at a much smaller scale. I forget the verbs used, but he basically recreates the tissues. For my part, I can suggest the bumbling supporting characters of detectives like Sherlock Holmes and Poirot on film aren’t really fair. In the books, they’re intelligent and capable. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683/68 "2013-06-27T01:05:42Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Not necessarily without the knowledge of how his audience would react, since he was the consummate pop writer of his day. While it’s true that the textual reading supports lawyers, I imagine audiences went wild with approval when they actually heard it. _sad face_ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683/69 "2013-06-27T01:41:11Z")
> [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](#): > > For my part, I can suggest the bumbling supporting characters of detectives like Sherlock Holmes and Poirot on film aren’t really fair. In the books, they’re intelligent and capable. Hastings? I’m not seeing it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683/70 "2013-06-27T02:43:19Z")
I wrote a paper for a class on Film Noir about how nobody ever gets Philip Marlowe right. Generally, they just attach the name to a stereotypical hard-boiled detective, cynical like Marlowe, but without the romanticism that underlies it. Judgmental like Marlowe, but without the bitter self-recrimination that I would argue stems from his struggle with bisexual feelings. Tough, like Marlowe, but dishing out punishment where the real Marlowe is generally the one taking the lumps. I actually think that Robert Altman’s somewhat dippy Marlowe is the closest anyone’s gotten to the character in the books. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683/71 "2013-06-27T04:24:36Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Well, in the book several people converged on Dracula, and the sun rose (although it wasn’t lethal to him in the book, and he walks around in daylight, at other times he seems immobile and weakened by the sun), so I think the Bowie knife is only one factor. But a wooden stake was not among them. > > And people can be forgiven for thinking he was staked, since Drac dies pretty spectacularly of being staked in the original Deane and Balderston stage play (and its 1977 Broadway revival). They also staked him in the 1931 Bela Lugosi/Tod Browning movie (although offscreen). He’s died in various other ways in the many other movie adaptations of the story. It’s also a pretty natural conflation of the book’s most memorable scene - the staking of Lucy Westenra, which establishes almost all of the “staking a vampire” tropes - with the book’s most memorable character, the titular count. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683/72 "2013-06-27T13:02:13Z")
> [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](#): > > This one’s a little more minor, but the Monster isn’t just a collection of gross pieces of anatomy sewed together. In the book, it describes how Frankenstein creates him (it?) at a much smaller scale. I forget the verbs used, but he basically recreates the tissues. > . You’re quite right. UI think of the creation more like that described by Clark Ashton Smith in his underappreciated story _The Colossus of Ylorgne_, where bodies are rendered down into constituent biological materials from which his “Frankenstein”-like creature is constructed. In Shelley’s book, in fact, it explicitly says that Frankenstein used _animal_ tissue as well as human tissue ---
**Author:** ![Rubixcube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Rubixcube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubixcube)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683/73 "2013-06-27T13:07:32Z")
The popular depiction of Tarzan is that of a strong wild man who can barely make out words with more than three syllables. This is almost the polar opposite of the original novels. In those Tarzan is rather intelligent, speaks several languages fluently, and integrates into society quite well. There’s also a significant difference in the portrayal of his relationship with Jane. Most of the films have her running away from her life to life in the jungle. In the novels the opposite occurs. When they do get married (which did not actually occur at the end of the first story) they both go to live in England. He spends a number of years in civilization with her raising their son. They do later move full time to Africa. But they live on a large estate, not in a treehouse. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683/74 "2013-06-27T13:30:08Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > . . .In Shelley’s book, in fact, it explicitly says that Frankenstein used _animal_ tissue as well as human tissue I dunno. It seems pretty ambiguous. It does strongly imply that the “fiend” is being “created,” and from that we can infer that [in some undisclosed way] he is creating the tissue, but I don’t see where he mentions anything meaningful. He does mention collecting bones to study the human body, and probably from there we get the idea of grave-robbing to stitch them together–but I think Shelley (as Frankenstein) left out the details on exactly how he made his creation deliberately. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683/75 "2013-06-27T13:47:06Z")
I have to admit I’d really like to see **Grude** face the music in this thread… ---
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683/76 "2013-06-27T14:09:08Z")
> [@Flywheel](#): > > A popular image of _Hamlet_ is the title character holding up a skull while reciting “To be, or not to be…”. In fact, the skull doesn’t appear until two acts after the monologue. Hamlet’s speech at the grave yard has to have one of the most misquoted lines out there. Most people seem to think that it begins, “Alas, poor Yorick, I knew him well,” when it’s actually, “. . . I knew him, Horatio . . .” And I should know. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683/77 "2013-06-27T14:23:56Z")
> [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > I wrote a paper for a class on Film Noir about how nobody ever gets Philip Marlowe right. Generally, they just attach the name to a stereotypical hard-boiled detective, cynical like Marlowe, but without the romanticism that underlies it. Judgmental like Marlowe, but without the bitter self-recrimination that I would argue stems from his struggle with bisexual feelings. Tough, like Marlowe, but dishing out punishment where the real Marlowe is generally the one taking the lumps. I actually think that Robert Altman’s somewhat dippy Marlowe is the closest anyone’s gotten to the character in the books. Who are you, Leslie Fiedler Junior? Where do you possibly derive the idea that Philip Marlowe struggles with bisexual feelings? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683/78 "2013-06-27T14:29:16Z")
I’ve given this example before, but what the heck- I’ve been known to beat dead horses before. Nobody reads Eugene Burdick’s 1958 novel _ **The Ugly American** _ any more, but the phrase “The Ugly American” is used all the time. Generally, the phrase is applied to any stereotypical loud, boorish American tourist, the type of ignorant yahoo who doesn’t know or care about foreign cultures, and expects everything to be like it was back home. In the novel, the “ugly American” in the title is Homer Atkins, an American engineer. He is NOTHING like the aforementioned stereotypical American jerk. He is idealistic, intelligent, and respects the Asians he lives and works with. He’s called “ugly” because, despite his good heart, he’s not at all good-looking. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683/79 "2013-06-27T15:22:41Z")
> [@Rubixcube](#): > > The popular depiction of Tarzan is that of a strong wild man who can barely make out words with more than three syllables. This is almost the polar opposite of the original novels. In those Tarzan is rather intelligent, speaks several languages fluently, and integrates into society quite well. If I remember the book correctly, Tarzan learns to speak French before he learns to speak English; his first human friend is a shipwrecked French sailor. ---
**Author:** ![Renifer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Renifer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renifer)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683/80 "2013-06-27T15:38:29Z")
> [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](#): > > Everybody knows that Dracula was killed with a stake to the heart. > > Everybody except Bram Stoker, that is. It was a Bowie knife. And sunlight didn’t make him dissolve or burn. That started with _Nosferatu_. Another – Randall McMurphy in One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest raped a woman. So he wasn’t merely a free spirit unjustly incarcerated in a mental institution – he actually harmed at least one person before being admitted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fiction-which-is-misrepresented-in-pop-culture/661683.md?page=5)