# Fictional characters and race in the modern media world... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 9, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753 "2014-04-09T20:56:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753/41 "2014-04-10T14:57:26Z")
Yeah, the only way you’d get a black lawman in the 1870s west would be something like _Blazing Saddles_. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753/42 "2014-04-10T15:08:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yeah, the only way you’d get a black lawman in the 1870s west would be something like _Blazing Saddles_. The closest WWW came was in the “rat pack” episode, where West and Gordon offered Sammy Davis, Jr’s character a job working with them. He didn’t take it, but of course that was more likely that Davis didn’t want to do weekly TV than the racial realities of 1875 (or 1967). ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753/43 "2014-04-10T15:11:50Z")
In my opinion, the need to “multiculturalize” every character by making them a different race is political correctness taken to it’s logical absurdity. Captain America, as someone already pointed out, is a product of a 1941 super soldier and war propaganda experiment. It would make about as much sense to cast him as a black man as it would to remake Dolomite staring Tom Cruise as the titular character. It completely ignores the historic and social context of the character. Same thing with Tony Stark, given that he is the son of Howard Stark, a weapons manufacturer during WWII. A black or Chinese-American Bruce Banner or Nick Fury is fine because there is no racial or historical context to those characters. If you want to make Captain America more interesting, maybe focus on him adjusting to 2014, having been raised on 1941 sensibilities. (And the fact that he’s probably a homosexual given his lack of interest in women.) Nick Fury: “Welcome to S.H.E.I.L.D, Mr. Rogers. You’ve been frozen a long time.” Steve Rogers AKA Captain America: “Oh my stars! A Negro!” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753/44 "2014-04-10T15:27:36Z")
What makes you say he lacks interest in women? He’s inexperienced and doesn’t have time, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t want to have a relationship with one. And seeing a black man in a position of authority was probably less surprising for him than seeing a woman in one, and he already went through that before his freeze with Carter. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753/45 "2014-04-10T15:47:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What makes you say he lacks interest in women? He’s inexperienced and doesn’t have time, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t want to have a relationship with one. Most guys find time to get laid. I’m just saying is all.😉 That would actually be an interesting character twist, to make a gay Captain America. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753/46 "2014-04-10T16:45:21Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You do realize that outside of North America the idea that Jessica Alba isn’t white is utterly ludicrous if not racist. Jessica Alba not white? Had no idea. She SEEMS very white. Whiter than the whitest white girl in movies, who is of course Cameron Diaz! ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753/47 "2014-04-10T16:59:12Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Jessica Alba not white? Had no idea. She SEEMS very white. Whiter than the whitest white girl in movies, who is of course Cameron Diaz! Nonsense, the whitest white girl in movies is Gwyneth Paltrow. Jessica Alba’s father is Mexican, according to IMDb. That’s more than enough for some people to say she’s not white. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753/48 "2014-04-10T18:05:10Z")
Rogers could find time to get laid, but he’s not the sort to be interested in a one-night stand. And he doesn’t have time for a real relationship (yeah, most guys could find time even for that, but again, I refer to his inexperience). ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753/49 "2014-04-10T18:22:02Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yeah, the only way you’d get a black lawman in the 1870s west would be something like _Blazing Saddles_. No, not at all. This was before the end of Reconstruction. There were black Senators and congressmen, at least one black governor that I can remember. There were plenty of black cowboys, black soldiers and black lawmen like Bass Reeves. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753/50 "2014-04-10T19:26:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Rogers could find time to get laid, but he’s not the sort to be interested in a one-night stand. And he doesn’t have time for a real relationship (yeah, most guys could find time even for that, but again, I refer to his inexperience). Cut the guy some slack, he was holding out for Carter and trying to win a war. Not his fault he crashed into the Arctic and was forzen for 70 years right before thier first date. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753/51 "2014-04-10T19:47:47Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Cut the guy some slack, he was holding out for Carter and trying to win a war. Not his fault he crashed into the Arctic and was forzen for 70 years right before thier first date. Besides, he barely understood women in 1945 - asking him to make head or tails of relationships in 2014 is a bit beyond his capabilities. He \*knows \*he’s hopelessly old fashioned and out of date. I’d be a bit shy if I were him, too. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753/52 "2014-04-10T20:30:35Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > I don’t think it’s as hidebound as he seems to think it is. Making Nick Fury African-American when he was white in the comics didn’t seem to do more than elicit a few comments. You have to admit that, in terms of popularity, Nick Fury is at least an order of magnitude below Captain America, and several orders of magnitude below the likes of Superman or Batman. So, fooling around with the character is relatively “safe” for the movie makers. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753/53 "2014-04-10T20:43:40Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > You have to admit that, in terms of popularity, Nick Fury is at least an order of magnitude below Captain America, and several orders of magnitude below the likes of Superman or Batman. So, fooling around with the character is relatively “safe” for the movie makers. I think you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753/54 "2014-04-10T20:47:43Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > You have to admit that, in terms of popularity, Nick Fury is at least an order of magnitude below Captain America, and several orders of magnitude below the likes of Superman or Batman. So, fooling around with the character is relatively “safe” for the movie makers. That’s true, but maybe starting with some characters who are more “safe” gets the audience used to the idea, so next time they can do something that might have been a little less safe before they tested the waters. It’s only fair to remember that when it comes down to it, they’re in it to make money, so they have to be sure audiences aren’t going to rebel when they make too many tweaks to beloved characters with long histories. Frankly, I don’t see why instead of making Superman or Captain America black, or The Doctor female, they don’t just make movies about black heroes (like Falcon or Black Panther) or feature a strong female Time Lord in Doctor Who. (For the former, seed him in a more “popular” hero’s film and make him cool so people will like him even if they weren’t aware of him before, then spin him off into his own movie). I think the guy who played Falcon has enough charisma he could carry a movie as a lead. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753/55 "2014-04-10T20:55:50Z")
New thought: I wonder if the writer I quoted in the OP has a particular problem with Captain America because he _is_ Captain America, a character written as a representative for the entire country. I’m not sure what he thinks of Superman or any other major character, but his feelings definitely seem strong on Cap, and probably reflects at least a bit of his general POV on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753/56 "2014-04-10T20:59:25Z")
> [@davidw](#): > > No, not at all. This was before the end of Reconstruction. There were black Senators and congressmen, at least one black governor that I can remember. There were plenty of black cowboys, black soldiers and black lawmen like Bass Reeves. Idea for a _Wild Wild West_ sequel: The Compromise of 1877 ends Reconstruction and puts out of office President Grant … and Jim West. He decides to take revenge on the ungrateful government that fired him without so much as a gold watch for retirement. He takes all his proto-007 gadgets, breaks into the _Raiders of the Lost Ark_-esque facility where Loveless’s confiscated equipment was stored, and takes off in a steam-punk AT/AT ('cuz he hates spiders) for Washington DC. He takes the southern route and sees first-hand the consequences of the Federal troops being pulled out. Scene or two where he takes on Klansmen with said steam-AT/AT, Gatling guns blazing and West a-quipping. Romantic interlude with a black schoolmarm who doesn’t stop teaching as “suggested,” who he rescues in one of said action scenes. Movie ends with Grant talking him down (somehow, haven’t worked out the angle yet) at the very edge of the Potomac. In usual action-hero style, West walks away scot-free into a West-ern retirement with the schoolmarm because the only people he killed were the Klansmen who were in the midst of attacking other people (somehow he took the steam-AT/AT without killing anyone). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753/57 "2014-04-10T22:08:42Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Nonsense, the whitest white girl in movies is Gwyneth Paltrow. > > Jessica Alba’s father is Mexican, according to IMDb. That’s more than enough for some people to say she’s not white. I was having fun with Cameron Diaz as the whitest white girl in movies, given that she is in fact Cuban-American. Whiteness isn’t all it’s cracked up to be! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753/58 "2014-04-11T00:04:11Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Nick Fury: “Welcome to S.H.E.I.L.D, Mr. Rogers. You’ve been frozen a long time.” > Steve Rogers AKA Captain America: “Oh my stars! A Negro!” In the aforementioned comic, Colonel Fury starts explaining stuff to a freshly-thawed Captain America, and Cap – promptly superathletes out of the obvious Nazi hoax, because, see, he can tell you _exactly_ how many black colonels are running around circa World War II, and, well, you dim-witted con men apparently _can’t_. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753/59 "2014-04-11T03:26:52Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > Idea for a _Wild Wild West_ sequel: The Compromise of 1877 ends Reconstruction and puts out of office President Grant … and Jim West. . . . Fun! You ought’a be writing movies! (Instead of steam-powered AT-AT, how about a steam-powered Bison?) ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753/60 "2014-04-11T12:29:48Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I was having fun with Cameron Diaz as the whitest white girl in movies, given that she is in fact Cuban-American. Whiteness isn’t all it’s cracked up to be! Consider me whooshed, and my ignorance fought! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-characters-and-race-in-the-modern-media-world/685753.md?page=4)