# Fictional Heroes and Villains From a Different Perspective **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 2, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-heroes-and-villains-from-a-different-perspective/537998 "2010-05-02T01:48:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-heroes-and-villains-from-a-different-perspective/537998/41 "2010-05-02T16:55:33Z")
Just a quick hijack – **Curtis** , have you read the _X-Wing_ series? (If not, you should – they rock!) ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-heroes-and-villains-from-a-different-perspective/537998/42 "2010-05-02T19:12:21Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > [Professor Moriarty](http://www.amazon.com/Infernal-Device-Others-Professor-Moriarty/dp/0312252730) may have been known to empty the occasional safe or two, but his reputation for muder and mayhem on a grand scale is surely exaggerated. In _The Seven-Percent Solution_, Nicholas Meyer presents Professor Moriarty as being largely a delusion on the part of Holmes. There was a real Professor Moriarty in the book, but he was very different from the villain depicted in Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s stories. Count Dracula has been dealt with sympathetically in a number of works, perhaps most famously the 1992 film version of _Dracula_. He still commits most of the evil deeds from the book, but his behavior towards Mina at least is motivated by love for her (or her past incarnation) and Mina willingly allows him to bite her. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-heroes-and-villains-from-a-different-perspective/537998/43 "2010-05-02T19:19:23Z")
Check out [Sauron’s Blog](http://www.sauronsblog.com/?page_id=29) for the Dark Lord’s perspective on choir practice, the headaches of creating a world, and dealing with incompetent bosses and ungrateful Children. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-heroes-and-villains-from-a-different-perspective/537998/44 "2010-05-02T19:24:26Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Proportionally speaking (considering the Galaxy has quadrillions, possibly quintillions of sentinent beings) it isn’t much compared to the actions of say Qin Shi Huangdi or even the Allied bombing campaigns in World War II but there are quite a few people who consider the latter two actions to be in the long run beneficial or at least better than if it had happened otherwise. Curtis, I started not to respond to this thread, because my initial reactions to your earlier posts would rightfully get me mod-smacked. But I have a question for you, one I mean entirely seriously. I am not trying to trap you; I just want to know what you think. What do you think Jesus Christ–Son of God, Savior of Humanity, and so forth–would think of Emperor Palpatine? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-heroes-and-villains-from-a-different-perspective/537998/45 "2010-05-02T19:26:26Z")
> [@panamajack](#): > > You think he chose a name that sounds like Germanic words for “dark father” completely by accident? I think Vader was always intended to be a corrupted Anakin, even if the details of his former life, what he did to become evil, and his eventual redemption had not been worked out yet. > Not to say that he wasn’t genuinely evil in _Star Wars_; he couldn’t have been redeemed if he wasn’t. Vader murdered a roomful of grade-schoolers who trusted him and looked to him for guidance. He was not redeemable. I know Lucas wants us to think so, but Lucas is a nincompoop. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-heroes-and-villains-from-a-different-perspective/537998/46 "2010-05-02T19:28:23Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Magua from the _Last of the Mohicans_ would arguaby qualify. Told from his perspective, his quest to avenge the murder of his family at the order of Gen. Greyhair would seem noble, and I wouldn’t blame him one bit. I agree that by Magua’s lights, his quest to avenge his family is noble. I disagree that he’s not blameworthy for it. Villainous actions do not become non-villainous because the perpetrator had a genuine beef. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-heroes-and-villains-from-a-different-perspective/537998/47 "2010-05-02T19:45:20Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > What do you think Jesus Christ–Son of God, Savior of Humanity, and so forth–would think of Emperor Palpatine? I don’t even think Christ could find love or forgiveness for the prequel trilogy. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-heroes-and-villains-from-a-different-perspective/537998/48 "2010-05-02T20:01:27Z")
Said this before, but the “heroes” in Jurassic Park 2 were mostly villains, particularly Vince Vaughn’s character and the scientist chick. They weren’t just villains, they were completely incompetent villains. The “villains,” meanwhile, were exercising their legal right to claim property in which they had sunk billions of dollars and were going out of their way to NOT hurt the “heroes.” even though they richly deserved it. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-heroes-and-villains-from-a-different-perspective/537998/49 "2010-05-02T20:09:18Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Said this before, but the “heroes” in Jurassic Park 2 were mostly villains, particularly Vince Vaughn’s character and the scientist chick. They weren’t just villains, they were completely incompetent villains. The “villains,” meanwhile, were exercising their legal right to claim property in which they had sunk billions of dollars and were going out of their way to NOT hurt the “heroes.” even though they richly deserved it. I can’t quite agree. It’s clear that Vince Vaughn’s character is a villain by any reasonable lights; he is as responsible for the deaths-by-dinosaur as Dennis Nedry was in the first film. But the Julianne Moore character is less culpable. She does not assist him in the sabotage of the captive lizards; nor does she have foreknowledge of his colosally reckless “rescue” of the infant T-Rex, and even tries to dissuade him. That situation was forced upon her. The Jeff Goldblum character, Ian Malcolm, even less culpable; he doesn’t want to be there in the first place, and his motives for going to the island are entirely good. > [@Sampiro](#): > > I don’t even think Christ could find love or forgiveness for the prequel trilogy. Sam, I honestly want to know what Curtis thinks. My question about the Son of Mary was one of those rare times when I’m utterly serious. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-heroes-and-villains-from-a-different-perspective/537998/50 "2010-05-02T21:17:16Z")
The crew of L&O: SVU are either champions seeking justice for victims, or dangerously rogue cops, depending on your point of view. The very ADAs who work with them have their doubts. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-heroes-and-villains-from-a-different-perspective/537998/51 "2010-05-03T01:35:20Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Just a quick hijack – **Curtis** , have you read the _X-Wing_ series? (If not, you should – they rock!) I know I should. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Curtis, I started not to respond to this thread, because my initial reactions to your earlier posts would rightfully get me mod-smacked. But I have a question for you, one I mean entirely seriously. I am not trying to trap you; I just want to know what you think. > > What do you think Jesus Christ–Son of God, Savior of Humanity, and so forth–would think of Emperor Palpatine? Not very well to be mild. However if the Yuuzhun Vong invasion caused more suffering due to the break-up of the Empire than Palpatine’s survival may in the long run minimize sentinent suffering. And there were plenty of good men like Gilad Pellaeon who served the Empire. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-heroes-and-villains-from-a-different-perspective/537998/52 "2010-05-03T01:40:36Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > I can do it quite easily. I don’t think it’s a stretch at all to say that Palpatine’s actions had extremely powerful consequences even 45 years after he performed them. Hell, there is still an Imperial Remnant 45 years later. > > Yes, I believe had the Yuuzhang Vong attacked years earlier, at the height of the Galactic Republic and not a few decades later after two revolutionary regime changes they would have been more easily repelled. That’s quite true. Up until that moment in Revenge of the Sith when Anakin Skywalker kills Mace Windu instead of Palpatine that’s the best possible course for the Galaxy but once the Empire’s in place, the Galactic Civil War reduced it’s military might. For one a fleet of 25,000 Imperial Star Destroyers was reduced to 200 (!) and the Imperial Remnant proportionally was less suspectible to Yuuzhun Vong infiltration and did better in battle against them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-heroes-and-villains-from-a-different-perspective/537998.md?page=2)