# Fictional works of fiction. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 28, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337 "2005-10-28T17:29:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/1 "2005-10-28T17:29:17Z")
No, I’m not being redundant. I’m reading _A Fall of Moondust_ and wondering once again exactly how I got to this age having read so little Arthur C. Clarke. Anyway, in the book, some of the characters pass the time by reading aloud from a very trashy romance novel called _The Apple and the Orange_, about a love affair between Isaac Newton ("‘Call me Ike,’ said the sage huskily.") and Nell Gwyn. This novel, thank the Maker, is purely an invention of Clarke’s. I thought it might be fun to list other works of fiction that exist only in a fictional universe, especially those that figure into the plot at least in some minor way. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/2 "2005-10-28T17:43:53Z")
> [@Podkayne](#): > > I thought it might be fun to list other works of fiction that exist only in a fictional universe, especially those that figure into the plot at least in some minor way. Well, there’s the _Necronomicon_, of course, although technically it’s not fiction. There’s _The Grasshopper Lies Heavy_, which is a fictional alterative history within the fictional alterative history of Philip K. Dick’s _The Man In The High Castle_. Not only is it ficitonal fiction, it’s also self-referential and somewhat recursive (_Grasshopper_ mostly parallels actual history and the characters in _High Castle_ start to realize that they’re living within a novel.) Now I have this niggling irritation that I know a lot of books that fulfill this criterion but I can’t recall them. _grrrr_ Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/3 "2005-10-28T17:46:09Z")
Perhaps **Qadgop the Mercotan** knows of one? ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/4 "2005-10-28T17:48:50Z")
> [@Podkayne](#): > > No, I’m not being redundant. > > I’m reading _A Fall of Moondust_ and wondering once again exactly how I got to this age having read so little Arthur C. Clarke. > > Anyway, in the book, some of the characters pass the time by reading aloud from a very trashy romance novel called _The Apple and the Orange_, about a love affair between Isaac Newton ("‘Call me Ike,’ said the sage huskily.") and Nell Gwyn. This novel, thank the Maker, is purely an invention of Clarke’s. > > I thought it might be fun to list other works of fiction that exist only in a fictional universe, especially those that figure into the plot at least in some minor way. Nabakov’s “ **Pale Fire** ” is one. Some people really rate this book highly, but it didn’t click for me. IIRC a significant part of the book is made up of a poem written by one of the main characters, an English professor at a small US college (I think). The book describes how a deranged European, who thinks he is the king of Nova Zembla infiltrates the guy’s life. A lot of the story is written from the fantasist’s POV, so there is a huge reality gap between what is actually happening and how the fantasist interprets what is happening. I think the poem is used to illustrate that this gap exists and that the narrator is completely unreliable. Maybe someone who liked the novel better than me can give you a better description. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/5 "2005-10-28T17:53:04Z")
Ah, thanks **Stranger**! _The Grasshopper Lies Heavy_ is probably my subconscious motivation for the whole thread. I just knew I’d recently read a fantastic example. It was tickling at my forebrain, but I couldn’t put my finger on it. Seems like a common phenomenon! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/6 "2005-10-28T17:54:05Z")
Off the top of my head… Well, there’s the book Misery(IIRC) in the book Misery, by Stephen King. And there’s the funny porn movie in American Werewolf in London. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/7 "2005-10-28T18:00:03Z")
The “Cthulhu Mythos” is full of them – The Unaussprechlichen Kulten of Von Junzt (made up by August Derleth, a bad translation of Howard’s “Nameless Cults”)) the Pnakotic Manuscripts De Vermis Mysteriis and, of course, The Necronomicon of Al Hazred This page lists the mythical works in the Mytyhos: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu\_mythos](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu_mythos) Robert E. Howard had, in addition to von Junzt’s (which he made up) The (iron-bound) Book of Skelos ---
**Author:** ![ddgryphon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8c91f0/32.png) [@ddgryphon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ddgryphon)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/8 "2005-10-28T18:03:54Z")
There are several novels by TS Garp described in _The World According to Garp_. I can only think of the one with the professor who suffered terribly from flatulence and was cuckholded (though that might have been a collegue). ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/9 "2005-10-28T18:06:26Z")
In Neil Gaiman’s Sandman, Lucien is the keeper of Dream’s library, filled with books that were never written. A few of the titles are mentioned, but don’t immediately come to mind. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/10 "2005-10-28T18:09:13Z")
The foreword to Poe’s “The Fall of the House of Usher” consists of a fictional French quote by a fictional author. One episode of “MASH” centers around the missing last page of some mystery novel. A recurring joke on “Barney Miller” was Detective Harris’ novel, forever in progress, _Blood on the Badge_. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/11 "2005-10-28T18:42:17Z")
The (nightime?) soap opera that Summer watches on “The O.C.” The detective novels that JL Picard holodecked in Star Trek TNG. Itchy and Scratchy on the Simpsons There is an Anime (I believe it is Space Battleship Nadesko or something like that)where the charachters regularly watch anime (and those episodes are similar to the plotlines in the “outer” show) sorry so vague Brian oh, and Thyme magazine in Foxtrot ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/12 "2005-10-28T18:48:28Z")
- Sovrana Sostrata\*, the novel that was “killed” along with (presumably) its author in Robert Grudin’s novel, _Book._ ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/13 "2005-10-28T18:51:25Z")
Kilgore Trout’s stories are described in many of Vonnegut’s novels. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/14 "2005-10-28T18:51:34Z")
Anything by Kilgore Trout (with the possible exception of _Venus on the Half-Shell_ ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/15 "2005-10-28T18:52:36Z")
) Snap! ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/16 "2005-10-28T18:53:22Z")
Of course there’s the book (what was it called? I’ve only read 1984 500 times!) that O’brien gave Winston. And…and…a lot of others I can’t remember. The one to consult is certainly Lucien (he’s an execellent source…has many of my own works on file.) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/17 "2005-10-28T18:54:54Z")
_The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy_ ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/18 "2005-10-28T18:54:57Z")
Klingon Opera and Vogon Poetry, although I don’t have any titles… Tobin’s Spirit Guide. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/19 "2005-10-28T18:55:09Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > (with the possible exception of _Venus on the Half-Shell_ True. I’ve read Venus on the Halfshell. It wasn’t very good. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2005, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/20 "2005-10-28T18:57:39Z")
I don’t think the Lovecraft ones count because those are supposed to be real withen the context of the story. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337.md?page=2)