# Fictional works of fiction. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 28, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337 "2005-10-28T17:29:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/101 "2005-11-01T04:32:54Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > And of course there’s _Don Quixote_, by Pierre Menard (in Jorge Luis Borges’ _Pierre Menard, author of the Quixote_). Menard’s _Quixote_ is identical and superior to the orignal. Wow. Do you mind if I ask how this is possible? ---
**Author:** ![marque\_elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71c47a/32.png) [@marque\_elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marque_elf)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/102 "2005-11-01T04:55:27Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > Wow. Do you mind if I ask how this is possible? I think that’s exactly the point, that we are supposed to ask. Not know, just ask. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/103 "2005-11-01T10:05:29Z")
One episode of “Father Ted” had a pre-title sequence consisting of the three priests rushing for the sofa and turning on the TV to watch their favourite show, “Father Ben”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/104 "2005-11-01T10:25:17Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > [re Gorey’s _The Unstrung Harp_] Not really pointless: one of the best works about the writing process ever written. Ah But: the writing process itself is strangely pointless sometimes, no? ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/105 "2005-11-01T14:26:59Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > Wow. Do you mind if I ask how this is possible? You should really get the Borges story, but the gist of it is that it was written by someone present-day (well, 19something ish when Borges wrote his story). Wheras a lot of Cervantes writing is just late-Renaissance empty flourishes of rhetoric, the words of the modern writer of Don Quixote are full of intentional and thought-provoking meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/106 "2005-11-01T15:55:02Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > Wow. Do you mind if I ask how this is possible? That’s Borges’ assessment, not mine. I believe he meant it as a parody of literary criticism. Anyway, Menard decides to write _Quixote_, not by simply copying it, and not by re-enacting the life of Cervantes in order to start the work with the same body of personal experiences, but by basing it entirely on his own personal outlook. And his result turns out to be an exact duplicate of the original. Borges then discusses how this work is so much richer than the original based on… well… I don’t really know, but it’s an interesting read and nothing by Borges is more than 15 pages long, so go check it out. And having gone home and checked my bookshelves, my original post was wrong. The Stanislaw Lem book of reviews of fictional books was not _Mortal Engines_ but _A Perfect Vacuum_. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/107 "2005-11-01T15:59:17Z")
According to the “Behind the Laughter” episode, the entire “The Simpsons” series has been metafictional. TV series that were shown to be dreams by one of the characters: Dallas, St. Elsewhere, the final season of Roseanne, Newhart … I must be missing a few, got any others? ---
**Author:** ![Treviathan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/838e76/32.png) [@Treviathan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treviathan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/108 "2005-11-01T16:56:39Z")
In Ian MacEwan’s _Atonement_… …we find out in the fourth section that the three previous sections are actually a novel written by one of the main characters, based on her own life, and she’s sufficiently changed the facts enough that they could be considered a work of fiction. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/109 "2005-11-01T17:58:22Z")
Pat Murphy’s Max Merriwell/Mary Maxwell novels: _There and Back Again_ by Max Merriwell (a pastiche of The Hobbit) \*Wild Angel \* by Mary Maxwell (a pastiche of Tarzan – Mary Maxwell is Max’s Merriwell’s pseudonym) _Adventures in Time and Space with Max Merriwell_ by Pat Murphy There is reference in Murphy’s “Adventures in Time and Space with Max Merriwell” to Mary Maxwell’s novel **Here Be Dragons**. There may be additional mentions of other Max Merriwell and Mary Maxwell novels in the book, too. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337/110 "2005-11-01T18:16:56Z")
> [@Ragiel](#): > > [nitpick]Grunthos was actually an Azgoth of Kria, composers of the second-worst poetry in the universe. I can’t find a Vogon title in the book, maybe in one of the other versions?[/nitpick] The _correct_ forum code used to enclose any reference to Vogon poetry is not [/nitpick] – use [/nosepick] instead. Sailboat, Fictional Grammar Nazi [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-of-fiction/328337.md?page=5)