# Fictional works that are revealed to be fictionally fictional **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 26, 2013, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866 "2013-11-26T23:19:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866/41 "2013-11-27T10:38:22Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > All the shows that John Munch is in are part of the Tommy Westphall universe. Here’s the definitive guide to (American) television cross-overs. The universe with John Munch and Tommy Westphall is Group 2: > > [Crossovers Spin Off Master Page](http://www.poobala.com/crossoverlistb.html) Oh man, Group 10 is seriously weird. _Bewitched_ and _Star Trek_? ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866/42 "2013-11-27T11:25:39Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I believe the New York’s Finest Taxi Service because I’m sure Chazz Palmenteri had Dan Hedaya checking facts as Verbal was telling the story. The stuff that couldn’t be easily corroborated (like Redfoot) was surely made up. But as we see in the ending, Kobayashi was real, so much of the rest of the story was probably real as well. There was a guy who looked like the Kobayashi he described, but the name was fake—it was from the coffee cup. So for all we know, “Kobayashi” could be a hitman, a driver or his damned boyfriend. Also, he could check to see if the NYF Taxi Service bust happened, but that doesn’t prove any of the Usual Suspects were involved in it. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866/43 "2013-11-27T13:26:31Z")
The novel _The Double Bind_ by Chris Bojalian somewhat meets this. A lot of what happens in the story turns out to be the delusions of the main character, whose mental health is decompensating. I also found it not terribly effective, but that’s more of a review than you’re asking for. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866/44 "2013-11-27T13:33:40Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > There was a guy who looked like the Kobayashi he described, but the name was fake—it was from the coffee cup. So for all we know, “Kobayashi” could be a hitman, a driver or his damned boyfriend. > Also, he could check to see if the NYF Taxi Service bust happened, but that doesn’t prove any of the Usual Suspects were involved in it. He could check on the lineup that preceded the Taxi Service heist. And even if “Kobayashi” was just his driver, his appearance lends credence to that part of the story being somewhat accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866/45 "2013-11-27T13:47:15Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > The events in the movie [Deathtrap](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083806/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1) turned out to actually be a stage play titled _Deathtrap_. Are you sure about that? I thought the ending indicated that, after all the to-ing and fro-ing about the script and who was going to have the success with it, Helga ironically ends up with the hit play based on the real events from the rest of the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866/46 "2013-11-27T14:07:56Z")
The last scene of **30 Rock** reveals that the entire series was being pitched to ageless NBC head Kenneth by Liz Lemon’s great-granddaughter, 100 years in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866/47 "2013-11-27T14:31:12Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > He could check on the lineup that preceded the Taxi Service heist. And even if “Kobayashi” was just his driver, his appearance lends credence to that part of the story being somewhat accurate. All we know is that Pete Postlethwaite is the face he is thinking about when talking about Kabayashi. We have no idea who he actually is. It probably falls under the OP’s “It was all a dream” prohibition but I’ll say _Brazil._ At first glance you think you know what happened but when did it stop being reality and begin being a product of his tortured mind? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866/48 "2013-11-27T16:02:53Z")
About halfway through **[Gambit,](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060445/)** we discover that what we’ve been seeing is Michael Caine’s plan for a heist, not the heist itself. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866/49 "2013-11-27T16:19:43Z")
“L–d!” said my mother, “what is all this story about?” - “A COCK and a BULL,” said Yorick - “And one of the best of its kind, I ever heard.” ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866/50 "2013-11-27T18:25:25Z")
> [@typoink](#): > > Yep, which is why I asked. Didn’t expect it to be a terribly common trope, but I can imagine a cynical / absurdist / surrealist author getting away with it. It seems like something Vonnegut might have done in a story that was getting away from him. If it’s a bald-faced “this whole this is made up,” as opposed to “this was a dream,” then the work (if published or filmed) would almost by definition be ‘cult’ or otherwise non-mainstream. I think this is because though we humans admire successful trickery (both because we’d like to have that skill ourselves, and because we don’t want to fall prey to trickery practiced by others), we don’t like to have the obvious shoved in our faces. And obviously a work of fiction is…a work of fiction. To have the “twist” be the author saying, in effect, “Haha you losers, I made all this up!” doesn’t seem clever to us. It just seems rude. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866/51 "2013-11-27T18:34:00Z")
In a sense, _The Matrix_. We are presented with the notion that what we think of as the real world is actually a fiction, a computer simulation; and then we are shown the actual real world. By the end of the trilogy, it’s strongly implied that the “actual real world” is also a simulation. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866/52 "2013-11-27T18:41:54Z")
_Buffy the Vampire Slayer_ does this in the episode “Normal Again.” ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866/53 "2013-11-27T18:55:10Z")
[An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Occurrence_at_Owl_Creek_Bridge). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866/54 "2013-11-27T19:18:26Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > And obviously a work of fiction is…a work of fiction. To have the “twist” be the author saying, in effect, “Haha you losers, I made all this up!” doesn’t seem clever to us. It just seems rude. See also: _Atonement_. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866/55 "2013-11-27T20:43:07Z")
Another really good literary example is _The Real Life of Alejandro Mayta_ by Mario Vargas Llosa. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866/56 "2013-11-27T21:07:26Z")
Not at the end of the work, but a later installment in the franchise, but the anime movie Macross: Do You Remember Love? was revealed in later Macross series to have been a movie within the Macross universe. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866/57 "2013-11-27T21:22:21Z")
_**[Mark of the Vampire](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0026685/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_46)**_. The audience is left in the dark as to the actual goings on until the denouement. Does _ **If On a Winter’s Night a Traveler** _ count? I don’t know, and I hated it too much to think through it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866/58 "2013-11-27T21:33:15Z")
In _Rosenkrantz and Guildenstern are Dead_, the characters are somewhat aware that they’re characters in a play, and not real people. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866/59 "2013-11-27T22:04:18Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > In a sense, _The Matrix_. We are presented with the notion that what we think of as the real world is actually a fiction, a computer simulation; and then we are shown the actual real world. By the end of the trilogy, it’s strongly implied that the “actual real world” is also a simulation. And one of my favorite fan theories is that even the "real"world we see in Zion is actually still the Matrix, due to Cypher’s ability to jack in in the first movie without an operator and Neo’s ability to use Matrix powers in the tunnel vs. the squids. Which reminds me… _Inception_ qualifies, if you buy into the theory that the entire movie is… whoops, no, it’s just a dream. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866/60 "2013-11-27T22:12:27Z")
It’s implied in **Seven Psychopaths** that the only “real” scene is the conversation between Zachariah and Marty at the end. Everything else is the film that Marty’s been writing, also titled _Seven Psychopaths_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-works-that-are-revealed-to-be-fictionally-fictional/674866.md?page=4)