# Fictional worlds that make the least sense **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 6, 2014, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636 "2014-02-06T03:26:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636/41 "2014-02-07T02:11:37Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > The planet in **Pitch Black**. So the sun only goes down every 20 _years_, but when it does there’s enormous winged creatures, that can’t exist in the light, that un-hibernate and wreak havoc. How did that animal evolve under those conditions? Maybe they’re like cicadas, they only come out briefly to breed, and the rest of the time exist underground in a larval form? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636/42 "2014-02-07T02:29:24Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > …(It’s also unclear at this point whether a 5-year winter means 5-years-snowed-in or just 5 years of much lower crop yields.) Just the fact that inhabitants of Westeros speak of 5 _year_ winter suggests that the seasons don’t work like seasons on Earth do. On the other hand one of the methods the Maesters use to detect seasonal changes is a change in day lengths. And the seasons change at random, and not on any predictable cycle. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636/43 "2014-02-07T03:38:47Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I find the food supply of Middle Earth pretty hard to figure out. It’s unclear where Elves, Dwarves, and Orcs get their food from. They don’t seem to farm, herd, or hunt much themselves. Late to the party, but just pointing out that the Wood-elves of Mirkwood hunt a lot, so I suppose the Silvan folk of Lothlorien are similar. Also, the narratives suggest that Elvish fruits and other foods are magically delicious to mortal senses, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve got an edge at growing things too. Heck, a little bitty box of Lorien garden earth blessed by Galadriel makes the whole Shire blossom like morning-glories on an outhouse. I bet _she_ doesn’t have to worry any about bacterial wilt on her cucumbers, the bitch. [\envious resentment] We never actually see any Dwarf communities up close, but it’s made pretty clear that they trade their artisanal skills for foodstuffs. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636/44 "2014-02-07T04:00:38Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Also, the narratives suggest that Elvish fruits and other foods are magically delicious to mortal senses o/` Lembas travel cakes, They're magically delicious! o/` ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636/45 "2014-02-07T04:05:32Z")
“Eat them on their leafy plates, No need to wash the dishes!” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636/46 "2014-02-07T05:10:14Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, yeah. But, you know, Oz. The idea that it should make sense makes no sense, I mean, it’s not even the Discworld, it’s written for children. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What standards are we using here? E.g., is something as silly-and-who-cares as Flash Gordon’s Mongo or John Carter’s Barsoom simply outside the discussion? I mean seriously. At the one end of the spectrum we obviously have to rule out totally surrealistic things like [Beanworld](http://larrymarder.blogspot.com/); at what point does the question of whether it “makes sense” begin to apply? ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636/47 "2014-02-07T05:40:29Z")
The latest I saw was **Divergent** , a dystopia where Chicago breaks into five social groups: Dauntless, Abegnation, Erudite, Amity and Candor. Somehow, just the one city has become like this, with the US government apparently okay that the 3rd largest city in the country has become a walled-off communal social experiment that violates human rights as a matter of course. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636/48 "2014-02-07T06:48:51Z")
It pains me to say it, because as much as I hold dear **The Dark Tower** series, if you really try to take in the patchwork world he assembled from pieces of other worlds King had devised, it’s a mishmash of non-sense. I get what he was trying to do though, create an over-world as the mother universe of which all his other great novels somehow weaved into and out from, and tonally everything fit together (perhaps with exception of a few parts in the last three books) that was a hell of a read with incredible characters. But the world itself never seemed to gel into anything but a contrived hodgepodge to drag the plot across. **LOST** too. I loved the series, but shit, none of the mythology or the island made sense. At all. ---
**Author:** ![3trew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/13edae/32.png) [@3trew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3trew)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636/49 "2014-02-07T07:05:26Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Fantasy RPGs are terrible for this. In the worlds of Baldur’s Gate and Fable, free teleportation exists, yet is only used for adventurers saving on shoe leather: meanwhile trade is carried out by motley bands of pedlars carting their goods through the wilderness, prey to every ravening bugbear and oogy-boogy, and requiring nonstop help from lone ne’er-do-wells with swords. It hasn’t apparently occurred to any merchants that they could stick the stuff straight into in the teleports, all the brigands would starve and everybody else would get rich. The merchants in Fable will walk right up to within three feet of next to a hero who is fighting a werewolf, and stand there making comments on the fight. They will watch you slaughter three other merchants, one after another, and stand still while they tell you that they disapprove as you stalk towards them, blood soaked sword raised and murder in your eye. These people are not all that bright. Once they understand “running away from the killy things” I will expect some progress on the whole travel business. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636/50 "2014-02-07T07:06:37Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I find the food supply of Middle Earth pretty hard to figure out. It’s unclear where Elves, Dwarves, and Orcs get their food from. They don’t seem to farm, herd, or hunt much themselves. Only Men and Hobbits seem to go in for agriculture much, and they don’t appear to do all that much trade with the other peoples. Where do the Elves of Rivendell and Lothlorien, the Dwarves of the Blue Mountains, or the Orcs of the Misty Mountains, get their food from? At least for the silvan Elves, I figured they were like woodland creatures: they foraged. Picture it: a Hobbit comes around a bend in a path, and behold! He sees a lovely elf maiden, a vision of otherworldly beauty to stun the heart. The Hobbit watches, enchanted, as the elf maiden… chews elaborately on a mouthful of grubs. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636/51 "2014-02-07T07:28:45Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Actually, the thing that bothered me most about Dune is that it appears to be unbelievably DRY. Water is sold on the street, and people wear stillsuits to keep their water instead of sweating it away (does no one get heatstroke on Arrakis? Our bodies sweat for a reason). But you need water to grow plants. You need ample water for people. No desert area on earth seems to be as dry as Arrakis. There don’t seem to be any oases or areas of open water. The Fremen keep their secret stores of water, I know, but what the hell is everyone eating and drinking? Much has been made of Frank Herbert’s ecological thinking, but what the heck is the water cycle on Dune like? > > Actually, as others have noted in the past, the idea of tagging an alien planet as a “desert world”, or an “ice World” (Like Hoth in Star Wars) seems unlikely and shortsighted. An entire world has room and reasons for multiple environments, as Earth has. A lot of biological processes on earth take place in the ocean, but Dune has no oceans. Dune has some climate variation. There are ice-caps on the poles, and things get more “deserty” and drier as you move towards the equator. There’s moisture enough for condensation, which is presumably what the flora and fauna live off. There’s also apparently underground water sources the worms live off, or something. I kinda zoned out in the later books where the worm life-cycle was explained. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636/52 "2014-02-07T08:18:58Z")
> [@bibliophage](#): > > The one that comes to mind is _The Practice Effect_ by David Brin. It is set on a world where, in contrast to the rest of the universe, entropy decreases over time. I seem to recall there was some hand-waving explanation of why this local (planet-wide) effect doesn’t violate the second law of thermodynamics but it was not at all convincing. That doesn’t really count, it’s an artificially created effect; the “practice effect” of the title. And it has nothing to do with entropy not applying any more than intelligence altering the world in more normal ways does. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > Actually, as others have noted in the past, the idea of tagging an alien planet as a “desert world”, or an “ice World” (Like Hoth in Star Wars) seems unlikely and shortsighted. An entire world has room and reasons for multiple environments, as Earth has. Ice worlds exist in our own solar system; Europa and so on. If a world is cold enough and has water you are going to have an ice world since ice is what you get when water is cold enough. In fact it’s questionable as to how typical our own world is; we have an odd amount of water that prevents Earth from being either a dry desert world (and probably lifeless or nearly so), or an ocean planet. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636/53 "2014-02-07T12:04:37Z")
That is a failure in lots of SF, actually; the worlds where the action takes place are usually depicted as having breathable atmospheres, even if there is no life to produce that oxygen. At least Dune attempts to explain where the oxygen comes from, even if it wouldn’t work in practice if I recall correctly. Planets like the Earth, with shirtsleeve conditions and gently changing seasons, are likely to be very rare indeed. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636/54 "2014-02-07T16:00:43Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Dune has some climate variation. There are ice-caps on the poles, and things get more “deserty” and drier as you move towards the equator. There’s moisture enough for condensation, which is presumably what the flora and fauna live off. > > There’s also apparently underground water sources the worms live off, or something. I kinda zoned out in the later books where the worm life-cycle was explained. Yeah, but there’s no open vegetation, at least as far as I can tell. What the hell are people eating? It’s possible that an ecology can develop that has plants hidden away, or super-cacti that barely show and carefully shepherd their water, And where the hell is all the plant life or its equivalent that recycles CO[sub]2[/sub] into oxygen? On Earth we’ve got lots of grassland, rainforest, and forest, and even so most of the conversion takes place in the ocean. On Arrakis there are no large exposed areas of plant life, and there’s no ocean. How come everybody isn’t dead? It is, I suppose, possible to come up with some alternative means of feeding people and restoring oxygen, but Herbert never so much as hints at this (and in a book celebrated for his attention to ecology, no less). don’t get me wrong – I love the Dune books. But it certainly doesn’t appear to be a fubnctional system. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636/55 "2014-02-07T16:02:25Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That doesn’t really count, it’s an artificially created effect; the “practice effect” of the title. And it has nothing to do with entropy not applying any more than intelligence altering the world in more normal ways does. > > Ice worlds exist in our own solar system; Europa and so on. If a world is cold enough and has water you are going to have an ice world since ice is what you get when water is cold enough. > > In fact it’s questionable as to how typical our own world is; we have an odd amount of water that prevents Earth from being either a dry desert world (and probably lifeless or nearly so), or an ocean planet. Yeah, but we’re taklking about planets where people can live in the open. I expect much more variation in the climates in order to maintain a human-friendly environment. The oxygen on Hoth has to come from somewhere. Ditto the food for the abominable snow beasts. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636/56 "2014-02-07T16:04:11Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > At least for the silvan Elves, I figured they were like woodland creatures: they foraged. Picture it: a Hobbit comes around a bend in a path, and behold! He sees a lovely elf maiden, a vision of otherworldly beauty to stun the heart. The Hobbit watches, enchanted, as the elf maiden… chews elaborately on a mouthful of grubs. :smack: Hey, it worked in _The Lion King_! ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636/57 "2014-02-07T16:42:57Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra (in other words, the Star Trek world in which people talk only in metaphor). How do you ever develop spaceflight if you are forced to say “no, I mean’t the .85 millimeter calipers, not the .9 millimeter calipers” in the form of a metaphor? (etc etc etc) I always fan-wanked it that the Children of Tam can make whole sentences, they just choose not to in public, and especially not with aliens. Up in ‘polite society’ on the bridge, the captain sends down the word “Mirab, his sails unfurled” and the engineering staff is all “set the warp drive coils to 40%, adjust the anti matter flow, and watch the flux capacitors” or whatever. Sentences are for little children and technicians; proper adults speak only in metaphor. Someone on this board postulated that the Tamarians are telepathic with each other. That makes more sense in the context of the episode than my theory. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636/58 "2014-02-07T16:58:13Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I have a similar problem with Naomi Novik. Lazy, lazy worldbuilding. Yeah, her books started at great, combining Hornblower with Pern in a way. But then she fell in love with Napoleon, and the stories got grimmer, bleaker and less fun every book. I agree with\*\* MaxTheVool\*\* about the STtNG epi. How easy it would have been for the writers to slip in a line that they only use that form of speech for political and diplomatic talks. And- how do the stories even get told int he first place? What story is there for “Honey the babies diaper needs changing!” ? How do children develop speech? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636/59 "2014-02-07T17:02:06Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I believe it’s mentioned in passing that one of the things you do is save up lots and lots of grain so that people will be able to survive multi-year winters. (Of course when there’s a war going on and lots of refugees are eating up your grain surpluses you’re kind of screwed… but in the general case it’s a question that has an answer.) It also appears that the most of the leadership are idiots, and the population has massively declined, at least in the North. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636/60 "2014-02-07T17:09:52Z")
> [@grude](#): > > The setting of The Walking Dead, society entirely collapsed and 99% of people were zombified in 2 weeks? And all the supplies are also gone… > [@Miller](#): > > Actually, that’s about right. [Here’s a video explaining the math.](http://www.teq.com/blog/2013/03/the-math-of-a-zombie-apocalypse/#.UvQVwrSzxR0) > Exponents add up fast. Right. So the world should be literally LITTERED with food, vehicles, weapons, ammunition, fuel and other resources. There simply wasn’t time to use any of them up, and once a person zombified, they would walk away from their car/gun/backpack/trailer of survival goods etc. There’s also the question of how zombification spread as fast as pneumonic plague (e.g., must have been one mofo of a virus) but did not affect the survivors. It can’t possibly have happened that fast one bite at a time. But I guess it’s a better show for watching the stupid survivors trip over M-16s, tanks and 4WDs to grab their rusty revolvers, swords, sharp sticks and Kia brand transport. I’d nominate this for the worst world-building of all, given the scale of the audience. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fictional-worlds-that-make-the-least-sense/680636.md?page=4)