# FIFA Women's World Cup Final: USA v. Japan Commentary Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 17, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361 "2011-07-17T18:01:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361/81 "2011-07-17T21:54:46Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > I’m aware, I’m just really sick of how quickly some people go to “See, that’s what’s wrong with soccer, it’s (boring/slow/too hard to score)”. I’ve never heard anybody say, “That’s what’s wrong with basketball, you can just score way too much in one game”. Fair enough, but the complaint was more nuanced than that. It was that it is so hard to score in soccer that one team can own the other and still lose based on a fluke. That really can’t happen in basketball, and while it does very rarely happen in football the chance is vanishingly small. (I have no idea about baseball.) It’s much more likely to happen in hockey than the other major North American sports, but not nearly to the extent of soccer due to the higher scoring. For example, the 2010-11 NHL season averaged 5.6 goals per game, which (after a cursory google search) appears to be roughly double the amount of scoring in soccer. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361/82 "2011-07-17T21:56:52Z")
> [@coolbyrne](#): > > I think what really needs to be mentioned is how great this match was for the women’s game. Few fouls, no diving, fair refereeing decisions, and some real quality in the game. The women’s game is much maligned for its lack of quality in comparison to the men’s game, and is often cited for its poor play and sub-par goal keeping. This match negated all of those criticisms. I enjoyed the hell out of this game, but no it didn’t. Really poor finishing, really poor defending, really poor pks (on both sides). The women’s game is lightyears behind the men’s game, and will always be. If you’re a snob that’s looking for the best soccer on the planet, you will not watch women’s soccer. I will say that there is, except for Brazil, a lack of gamesmanship in the women’s game, which I absolutely adore. ---
**Author:** ![coolbyrne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bc79bd/32.png) [@coolbyrne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coolbyrne)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361/83 "2011-07-17T22:02:37Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I enjoyed the hell out of this game, but no it didn’t. Really poor finishing, really poor defending, really poor pks (on both sides). The women’s game is lightyears behind the men’s game, and will always be. If you’re a snob that’s looking for the best soccer on the planet, you will not watch women’s soccer. > > I will say that there is, except for Brazil, a lack of gamesmanship in the women’s game, which I absolutely adore. I suppose I shouldn’t have compared it to the men’s game, because that’s usually my complaint of other people! 🙂 What I mean to say is, the level of the women’s game has improved a lot over the last 4 years (there was an 11-0 game in the 2007 World Cup). Now, some critics might come back with, “That’s not saying much”, but as a football fan, I was glad to see the quality of the game today. Just out of curiosity, what would a snob watch if one was looking for the best soccer on the planet? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361/84 "2011-07-17T22:03:41Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > Solo dropped the ball on this one. They should have let her take the first penalty kick. History teaches us that it’s always better when Solo shoots first. _wah wah waaaaah…_ ---
**Author:** ![happycamper\_5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@happycamper\_5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happycamper_5)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361/85 "2011-07-17T22:05:52Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I enjoyed the hell out of this game, but no it didn’t. Really poor finishing, really poor defending, really poor pks (on both sides). The women’s game is lightyears behind the men’s game, and will always be. If you’re a snob that’s looking for the best soccer on the planet, you will not watch women’s soccer. > > I will say that there is, except for Brazil, a lack of gamesmanship in the women’s game, which I absolutely adore. I think it’s pointless to compare them. Both games have their strengths & weaknesses and I think it’s unfair to hold them each up to the other’s standard. I adore the lack of cheating in the women’s game, too, but you can argue that there’s hardly as much at stake there as in the men’s game since money has taken over men’s professional soccer (and I mean, both club & country.) Yes, women’s football still has much room for improvement skillwise, but only in terms of themselves, not in the hopes of measuring up to the men. Men’s football will always be more skillful in every aspect because, on average, men are quicker and stronger than women and they have access to better training and competition. ---
**Author:** ![deanc2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/53a042/32.png) [@deanc2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deanc2000)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361/86 "2011-07-17T22:08:05Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Fair enough, but the complaint was more nuanced than that. It was that it is so hard to score in soccer that one team can own the other and still lose based on a fluke. That really can’t happen in basketball, and while it does very rarely happen in football the chance is vanishingly small. (I have no idea about baseball.) > > It’s much more likely to happen in hockey than the other major North American sports, but not nearly to the extent of soccer due to the higher scoring. For example, the 2010-11 NHL season averaged 5.6 goals per game, which (after a cursory google search) appears to be roughly double the amount of scoring in soccer. I agree wholeheartedly. The US should have won this game, they dominated. In any other sport, the score would have reflected the US domination, but not in soccer. One solution would be to make the goals bigger. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361/87 "2011-07-17T22:10:33Z")
> [@coolbyrne](#): > > I suppose I shouldn’t have compared it to the men’s game, because that’s usually my complaint of other people! 🙂 What I mean to say is, the level of the women’s game has improved a lot over the last 4 years (there was an 11-0 game in the 2007 World Cup). Now, some critics might come back with, “That’s not saying much”, but as a football fan, I was glad to see the quality of the game today. > > Just out of curiosity, what would a snob watch if one was looking for the best soccer on the planet? I think that’s more about the bad teams getting better. Not necessarily that the entire women’s game is getting better. I don’t really follow the women’s game, but there were a fair amount of plays that made me cringe. Some very good passing sequences too. Rapinoe had some fantastic through balls as well, I was impressed with her before she got tired. The best soccer is the Champions League, by far. Or you could watch Real Madrid play Barca in La Liga. It’s really hard to compare though. The US women are about equal to a good 14 or 15 year old American club team. The women are much more skilled, overall, but they can’t compete athletically. So is that better soccer? Depends on your taste I guess. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361/88 "2011-07-17T22:18:00Z")
I must admit the guys can play beautifully, but c’mon, it gets tiring to the see a good game stopped every 5 minutes thanks to theatricals and childish whiners, plus somewhat hidden attempts to cause actual injury. While the women’s soccer games were more fluid, with less stoppage, less melodrama, and they were actually _nice_ when one of them accidentally tripped over one another. I remember one of the Brazilian players (not Marta) got a yellow card. She didn’t contest it, and before she got the card, she had helped the fallen player and seemed to have asked if she was OK. I saw a similar thing today with the US. BTW, **dean** , as **ladyfoxfire** said, this time US was Brazil. 😉 In the last match, Brazil dominated many parts of the game but couldn’t finish the goals. Had the goal posts been bigger, perhaps the US wouldn’t have even made it to where they did. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![happycamper\_5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@happycamper\_5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happycamper_5)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361/89 "2011-07-17T22:19:48Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > The best soccer is the Champions League, by far. Or you could watch Real Madrid play Barca in La Liga. Champions League? Sometimes. Madrid v. Barca? Not unless you want to watch Madrid play with 10 defenders and Barca pass in triangles around them all night. La Liga as a whole is definitely exciting to watch, though. The Bundesliga, as well. ---
**Author:** ![coolbyrne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bc79bd/32.png) [@coolbyrne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coolbyrne)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361/90 "2011-07-17T22:20:32Z")
> [@deanc2000](#): > > I agree wholeheartedly. The US should have won this game, they dominated. In any other sport, the score would have reflected the US domination, but not in soccer. > > One solution would be to make the goals bigger. Interestingly, the suggestion by most critics is to make the nets _smaller_, so that the 'keeper would have an easier time of things. (The goal keeping in women’s football is notoriously bad, they say.) > [@](#): > > The best soccer is the Champions League, by far. Or you could watch Real Madrid play Barca in La Liga. Barca, yes. Madrid, maybe. But not the two together. The four Classicos they played this past season got increasingly poorer and poorer as they went. The first leg of the CL between the two was particularly dirty and noted by many as a blight on the game. I think La Liga might have to step aside these days for the Bundesliga. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361/91 "2011-07-17T22:28:05Z")
Making the nets larger won’t help much, as people still aim for the corners, as that’s where it’s hardest for the keeper to go. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361/92 "2011-07-17T22:32:10Z")
> [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > Making the nets larger won’t help much, as people still aim for the corners, as that’s where it’s hardest for the keeper to go. I hate this argument. Because they go for the corners now (only when they need to actually) they’d still go for the corners no matter how large the goal is? What if it was 3 times the size? They wouldn’t just pass it into the open areas? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361/93 "2011-07-17T22:52:02Z")
> [@coolbyrne](#): > > I think what really needs to be mentioned is how great this match was for the women’s game. Few fouls, no diving, fair refereeing decisions,… Good point. You think men’s soccer will ever get a boost like that? ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361/94 "2011-07-17T22:54:21Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > It’s really hard to compare though. The US women are about equal to a good 14 or 15 year old American club team. The women are much more skilled, overall, but they can’t compete athletically. So is that better soccer? Depends on your taste I guess. Wait, you think the US Women’s national team is only as good as a team of middle school boys? Oh sorry, only as “athletic” as a group of middle school boys? Am I misreading something here? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361/95 "2011-07-17T23:00:04Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Wait, you think the US Women’s national team is only as good as a team of middle school boys? Oh sorry, only as “athletic” as a group of middle school boys? Am I misreading something here? That’s high school. But yes, that’s correct. ---
**Author:** ![deanc2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/53a042/32.png) [@deanc2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deanc2000)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361/96 "2011-07-17T23:01:32Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Wait, you think the US Women’s national team is only as good as a team of middle school boys? Oh sorry, only as “athletic” as a group of middle school boys? Am I misreading something here? I don’t think there’s any controversy that women will have less athleticism than men. I don’t think anyone would want women to be equal to men. They have to keep being feminine. It would be distubing if you had women out there who looked masculine. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361/97 "2011-07-17T23:08:35Z")
I’ve said this before (so it’s not just because the US lost) and I’m sure I’ll say it again. PKs are a very unsatisfying way to end a soccer game. Everyone seems to think so. Why are they so reluctant to have sudden death (or a golden goal as soccer prefers to call it). Today’s outcome was of the worst type a goal by each team in extra time requiring PKs. If we have to have PKs, I much prefer the MLS’s version which seems to make it a more equal fight between the kicker and the goalie. And better than PKs, I’d prefer a series of alternating corner kicks or kicks from further outside the penalty area involving either a full or partial team. Play would continue until the defense clears the ball (not a to corner kick), or goalie holds it. At least that would be more like soccer than PKs. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361/98 "2011-07-17T23:09:34Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > That’s high school. But yes, that’s correct. Just checking. That’s a bunch of bullshit, but thanks for clarifying. I don’t think anyone’s arguing that the women’s national team is on the same level as the men, but that’s just really fucking insulting. 14 year old boys? Come on. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361/99 "2011-07-17T23:11:26Z")
Great, enjoyable match. And I have to say that soccer is one of the sports where I equally enjoy men and women’s matches. I love how gracious Japan’s coach and Abby Wambach were. Excellent sportsmanship. My husband was disappointed that no one ripped off their shirt afterward. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361/100 "2011-07-17T23:11:49Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Just checking. That’s a bunch of bullshit, but thanks for clarifying. I don’t think anyone’s arguing that the women’s national team is on the same level as the men, but that’s just really fucking insulting. 14 year old boys? Come on. Want to place some money on this? It’s not an opinion. The USWNT often plays youth boys teams and lose. If they play the u-17 national team they get crushed. Last game I remember it was 7-0 boys. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-womens-world-cup-final-usa-v-japan-commentary-thread/589361.md?page=6)