# FIFA World Cup Hosts 2018/2022 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 2, 2010, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652 "2010-12-02T11:42:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652/101 "2010-12-03T11:01:38Z")
The Sore Losers brigade is at it I see. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652/102 "2010-12-03T11:17:24Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The Sore Losers brigade is at it I see. Do you think FIFA’s decision making is above board and fair? I don’t think it is, the evidence suggests it is corrupt and so I feel justified at being annoyed at their decision making process. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652/103 "2010-12-03T11:59:21Z")
> [@TheBoltEater](#): > > B) unlike every single other nation on the planet, the US doesn’t need to build anything to host. What a ridiculous statement. Even the head of FIFA is on record as saying, “England can organise the World Cup tomorrow”, Cite: [http://stocks.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20101014/sport/blatter-impressed-by-england-world-cup-bid](http://stocks.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20101014/sport/blatter-impressed-by-england-world-cup-bid) (First result pulled from Google) ---
**Author:** ![BDoors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BDoors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BDoors)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652/104 "2010-12-03T12:32:17Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The Sore Losers brigade is at it I see. Not sure if you’re including me in that brigade, but my consternation is directed at the choice of Qatar over, well over anyone, rather than Russia over England. I was actually ambivalent about whether I wanted England to get it. And as others have said, you can make a decent case for Russia. It’s probably the most significant footballing nation not to have hosted a World Cup, except maybe the Netherlands, which is too small (although much bigger than Qatar!). ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652/105 "2010-12-03T12:38:58Z")
> [@BDoors](#): > > Not sure if you’re including me in that brigade, but my consternation is directed at the choice of Qatar over, well over anyone, rather than Russia over England. I was actually ambivalent about whether I wanted England to get it. And as others have said, you can make a decent case for Russia. It’s probably the most significant footballing nation not to have hosted a World Cup, except maybe the Netherlands, which is too small (although much bigger than Qatar!). Totally agree with this statement. Despite my misgivings about Russia, considering my Champions League experience, I can at least see a plausible reason for them to get it - or for any of the contenders for 2018 to put on a good show. I can’t think of a single merit for Qatar, except that it’s a region that hasn’t hosted before. I would’ve heartily supported a bid by Turkey to represent the region. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652/106 "2010-12-03T13:26:53Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Why are soccer fans complaining about the heat in Qatar? Shouldn’t there be at least one thing hard about playing soccer? A perfect example of that which so many Americans on here claim doesn’t happen. Whenever a thread starts about football, not matter how the discussion goes, an American will at some point pop in and tell us how shit “soccer” is. We get it. Your 300 pound guys in embarrassingly tight trousers are the only men in the real world. Now sod off and let us discuss our shitty little game. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652/107 "2010-12-03T13:32:04Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Do you think FIFA’s decision making is above board and fair? > > I don’t think it is, the evidence suggests it is corrupt and so I feel justified at being annoyed at their decision making process. How so. There were procedures laid in FIFA’s rule where a 30 member committee chose who gets the Cup. A thirty member committee did so choose Qatar, according to the rules laid down. So procedures have been followed as laid down in advance. The second issue is whether the committee members were subjected to any duress and undue influence. If there is any evidence besides empty speculation based upon conjectures and surmises predicated on a belief of “those dirty Arab savages operate this way” then tell me and everybody else. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652/108 "2010-12-03T13:37:46Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > How so. There were procedures laid in FIFA’s rule where a 30 member committee chose who gets the Cup. A thirty member committee did so choose Qatar, according to the rules laid down. > > So procedures have been followed as laid down in advance. The second issue is whether the committee members were subjected to any duress and undue influence. If there is any evidence besides empty speculation based upon conjectures and surmises predicated on a belief of “those dirty Arab savages operate this way” then tell me and everybody else. The corruption at all levels in FIFA has been widely documented. The BBC’s flagship investigative journalism show “Panorama” has done several show on FIFA, including one just last week. There was one a year or two back on specifically the money that changes hands so that Sepp Blatter remains head of FIFA. FIFA is about as corrupt as sporting federations get and, frankly, trying to argue otherwise just shows you up to be incredibly badly informed. Here’s a couple of Wikipedia links to start you off: > **[FIFA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifa#Allegations_of_corruption_and_legislative_interference)** > > The Fédération Internationale de Football Association\[a\]\[b\] (lit. 'International Federation of Association Football'), more commonly known by its acronym FIFA\[c\] (/ˈfiːfə/ FEE-fə), is an international self-regulatory governing body of association football, beach football, and futsal. It was founded on 21 May 1904 to oversee international competition among the national associations of Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland. Headquartered in Zurich, Sw... > **[Sepp Blatter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sepp_Blatter#Allegations_of_corruption)** > > This is an accepted version of this page > > Joseph Sepp Blatter (born Josef Blatter; 10 March 1936) is a Swiss former football administrator who served as the eighth president of FIFA from 1998 to 2015. He has been suspended from participating in FIFA activities since 2015 as a result of the FIFA corruption case made public that year, which will remain in place until 2027. > From a background in business, public relations, and sports administration, Blatter became general secretary of FIFA in 1981... ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652/109 "2010-12-03T14:06:32Z")
Irrelevant. Is there any actual evidence to show that _this particular vote_ was tainted? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652/110 "2010-12-03T14:16:28Z")
And I much preferred this [article]([http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/03/sports/soccer/03iht-soccer.html?src=un&feedurl=http://json8.nytimes.com/pages/sports/soccer/index.jsonp\](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/03/sports/soccer/03iht-soccer.html?src=un&feedurl=http://json8.nytimes.com/pages/sports/soccer/index.jsonp%5C)). ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652/111 "2010-12-03T14:29:58Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Irrelevant. Is there any actual evidence to show that _this particular vote_ was tainted? Well two of the twenty four committee members were banned from voting due to being found willing to sell their votes: > **[FIFA Suspends Officials in Vote-Selling Scandal (Published 2010)](https://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/21/sports/soccer/21fifa.html)** > > FIFA began its investigations after a British newspaper, The Sunday Times, said that two officials offered to sell their votes for funding toward soccer projects. And those were just the ones they found. Due to the corruption that is evident at FIFA it has lead many to believe that there was a large amount of vote selling with the other committee members. Seriously, anyone that has even vaguely followed the antics of FIFA over the years will just roll their eyes and say “yeah, it was just those two”. But no, there’s no outright evidence right now as, obviously, if there was we’d be seeing a new vote. What you can do is look at what happened directly before the vote and the history of corruption and FIFA, not to mention how poorly the two winners did on the technical inspections, and be highly, highly suspicious. It is like the Wikileaks stuff that is going on right now, frankly we knew just about all of it anyway. Not much new has really appeared because we knew our politicians were shits and much of the goings on were open secrets. The same with FIFA. To put it simply, FIFA is corrupt and right before the vote, thanks to British newspaper investigation, some of that corruption was made clear. However it is incredibly naïve to think that those two were the only people, especially when you look at the past corruption in that organisation. Not that I really care. Russia doesn’t really bother me (I don’t live in a country that was bidding, and as a Brit I worry about the economics of England running a World Cup so soon after the Olympics) but Qatar is just mental for so many reasons that have already been stated. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652/112 "2010-12-03T14:33:23Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > And I much preferred this [article]([http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/03/sports/soccer/03iht-soccer.html?src=un&feedurl=http://json8.nytimes.com/pages/sports/soccer/index.jsonp\](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/03/sports/soccer/03iht-soccer.html?src=un&feedurl=http://json8.nytimes.com/pages/sports/soccer/index.jsonp%5C)). Well of course you would. It makes no reference to the corruption, despite the suspension of two committee members and several underlings for precisely that just a couple of weeks before the vote. That article was written in cloud lala land. I want to live there. Unfortunately, back in reality, FIFA are a bunch of crooks. ---
**Author:** ![footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9f8e36/32.png) [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/footballisplayedwithyourfeet)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652/113 "2010-12-03T14:40:12Z")
Well one thing that is at least suspicious is that the Holland/Belgium bid got 4 votes in the first round, but only two after England dropped out, so prefferences changed after an irrelevant alternative dropped out (for all Arrow reading political scientist out there). I don’t really see how this decision could be rationalized, Russia already had ten votes so bulking up Spain (if you really disliked Russia) still would have no effect since (CP) everything still depended on where the two England votes ended up. Also given Russia won with 13 votes at least one of these (again CP) would have switched from Holland/Belgium to the almost in the clear Russians…it all just doesn’t add up. edit: Like I said before, I can understand Russia, but as explained above the voting seemed strange. Qatar (and Ausralia’s single vote) is what I really can’t fathom. I believe the English are saying that deciding both tournaments at once was a mistake, and led to vote trading and the like. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652/114 "2010-12-03T14:57:15Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > How so. There were procedures laid in FIFA’s rule where a 30 member committee chose who gets the Cup. A thirty member committee did so choose Qatar, according to the rules laid down. > > So procedures have been followed as laid down in advance. The second issue is whether the committee members were subjected to any duress and undue influence. If there is any evidence besides empty speculation based upon conjectures and surmises predicated on a belief of “those dirty Arab savages operate this way” then tell me and everybody else. No, you seem to be forgetting the relevance of the technical bids, much as FIFA did. They laid out the rules of the game and saw fit to ignore them. Pretty much the polar opposite to your claim above. They also said that the BBC documentary would play no part in their decision and yet Blatter reminded the committee of it immediately before the vote. I suggest you educate yourself and chase down those links that people have given you and you’ll find all the dirt you need. You linked to a New York Times Article that is so soft as to be laughable. Oh, and you might want to check out Jack Warner as well in some detail. And I hope I speak for everyone else here when I say we don’t appreciate having words put into our mouths. I’m sure you know which ones I mean. The ire of the posters here is directed at FIFA. That bribery and corruption are a part of doing business in certain parts of the world is no surprise but it only works when the vendor is willing to indulge it. FIFA have been willing to do so in the past and their structure and governance is no different now. When you show you can be bought, people will try to buy you. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652/115 "2010-12-03T15:01:51Z")
As others have said, I can just about stomach Russia (though it is fairly likely that bribery was involved) A rationale can be made for it even if I think it is terrible choice from a fan’s POV. But Qatar just boggles the mind. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652/116 "2010-12-03T16:25:26Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > No, you seem to be forgetting the relevance of the technical bids, much as FIFA did. They laid out the rules of the game and saw fit to ignore them. Pretty much the polar opposite to your claim above. They also said that the BBC documentary would play no part in their decision and yet Blatter reminded the committee of it immediately before the vote. > > I suggest you educate yourself and chase down those links that people have given you and you’ll find all the dirt you need. You linked to a New York Times Article that is so soft as to be laughable. > > Oh, and you might want to check out Jack Warner as well in some detail. > > And I hope I speak for everyone else here when I say we don’t appreciate having words put into our mouths. I’m sure you know which ones I mean. > > The ire of the posters here is directed at FIFA. That bribery and corruption are a part of doing business in certain parts of the world is no surprise but it only works when the vendor is willing to indulge it. FIFA have been willing to do so in the past and their structure and governance is no different now. > > When you show you can be bought, people will try to buy you. 1. The technical bids don’t decide, the voting decides. In voting the persons there are entitled to exercise their discretion. Where there is undoubtedly discretion then you cannot disagree with the it merely on the grounds that you would have made a different choice. 2. Most of what has been claimed in the links is based upon hearsay, uncorroborated assertions and unsupported accusations. It is not the issue that FIFA has been bad in the past, the issue is that is there any evidence of wrongdoing _now in this case_. 3)Please tell me “which words”. And I repeat myself. The unhappiness is based upon the fact that a Middle Eastern Country got it, a country with a different culture and system. Nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652/117 "2010-12-03T16:27:54Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > And I repeat myself. The unhappiness is based upon the fact that a Middle Eastern Country got it, a country with a different culture and system. Nothing else. If you believe that, then you haven’t read any other posts in this thread and are determined to shout ‘racism’ through nil provocation. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652/118 "2010-12-03T16:59:27Z")
Unfortunately for me I am down with an awful cold and have been in bed all day. I HAVE read all the posts. Sore losers. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652/119 "2010-12-03T17:33:12Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > 1. The technical bids don’t decide, the voting decides. In voting the persons there are entitled to exercise their discretion. Where there is undoubtedly discretion then you cannot disagree with the it merely on the grounds that you would have made a different choice. The technical bids were supposed to carry immense weight, until FIFA decide they are irrelevant that is > [@](#): > > 1. Most of what has been claimed in the links is based upon hearsay, uncorroborated assertions and unsupported accusations. It is not the issue that FIFA has been bad in the past, the issue is that is there any evidence of wrongdoing _now in this case_. What is uncorroborated about FIFA banning two of the committee members? If you stick to your line above then you find yourself in a tiny minority of informed observers in the sporting world. I can’t prove a case that would stand up in a court of law but for me to claim “corruption” I don’t need to. The evidence of journalism I trust leads me to believe it has been there before and is most likely there now. That is enough for me. > [@](#): > > 3)Please tell me “which words”. When you said > [@](#): > > “those dirty Arab savages operate this way” that was a disgraceful attempt to tar people with racist motives. You might want to raise your game a little. > [@](#): > > And I repeat myself. The unhappiness is based upon the fact that a Middle Eastern Country got it, a country with a different culture and system. Nothing else. Bollocks. Were it Iceland in January I’d be equally annoyed. Though I confess I don’t see how a country where homosexuality is illegal and women do not have full rights fits in to the FIFA mission statement. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652/120 "2010-12-03T17:49:49Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > There are also some concerns about visa/security issues. US citizens don’t realize this but getting there can be an extremely painful process for a lot of foreigners. I suspect that has played a role in US losses in both their Olympic and World Cup bids. Trying to secure a Russian visa is no picnic either. Stories about the process are legion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifa-world-cup-hosts-2018-2022/562652.md?page=7)