# Fifty Centuries of Human History... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 15, 2003, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-centuries-of-human-history/168771 "2003-04-15T00:43:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-centuries-of-human-history/168771/221 "2003-04-18T14:30:37Z")
God, I hope Estilicon’s kidding us about him being a lawyer. His track record for evaluating evidence isn’t getting any better with that last post. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-centuries-of-human-history/168771/222 "2003-04-18T15:04:53Z")
slight hijack: (by the way, this thread has been an eye-opener for me. Some of you should calm down, because good points are being made on both sides. With numerous exceptions, of course.) [http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2583553](http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2583553) (got the link from Drudge) The Baghdad Zoo has been looted as well, naturally. Many of the animals have been stolen, others left to roam the streets after their cages were smashed. No one was brave enough to loot the lions, though. They’re still there, starving to death. As of yesterday, it had been ten days since they’d been fed. I know that starving people are more important than starving lions. Still, I wonder why the military can’t trot over to the zoo at this point – they’re controlling the city, right? – and toss in a few MREs. Perhaps they’re busy feeding the people? I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-centuries-of-human-history/168771/223 "2003-04-18T21:11:57Z")
Actually Monty I am not kidding, I am a lawyer. The difference between you and me is that I can consider the possibility that I am wrong that is why I usually read other dopers words, consider them at least for a few nanoseconds and afterwards I try to argue with them (if I dare). You, on the other hand, always answer with a personal attack in, if I am lucky, two lines. One day there will be a nice pit thread with your hide nailed to it. It won’t be today because this is one of the most important day of the catholic calendar and because of it I will forgive you, again, specially since I just escaped from church and instead of being singing to the glory of the lord I am wasting my time with you, again, so please would you care to say where I am wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-centuries-of-human-history/168771/224 "2003-04-18T21:16:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by masonite \* > \*\* > The Baghdad Zoo has been looted as well, naturally. Many of the animals have been stolen, others left to roam the streets after their cages were smashed. No one was brave enough to loot the lions, though. They’re still there, starving to death. As of yesterday, it had been ten days since they’d been fed. > > I know that starving people are more important than starving lions. Still, I wonder why the military can’t trot over to the zoo at this point – they’re controlling the city, right? – and toss in a few MREs. Perhaps they’re busy feeding the people? I don’t know. \*\* CNN reported today that the soldiers are throwing in MREs, as well as stray sheep found roaming in the streets. (The report said that some tender-hearted soldiers go without meals themselves in order to feed the animals. God bless them.) A report I saw said that they’re also feeding zoo animals which have starved to death (a wolf was fed to them in the report I saw) to the lions and bears. Their biggest problem at the moment is water, since there’s no running water in the zoo right now. Soldiers are bringing pans of water to the outside of the cage, and letting the animals lap the water through the bars. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-centuries-of-human-history/168771/225 "2003-04-19T18:41:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by masonite \* > \*\*I know that starving people are more important than starving lions. Still, I wonder why the military can’t trot over to the zoo at this point – they’re controlling the city, right? – and toss in a few MREs. Perhaps they’re busy feeding the people? I don’t know. \*\* In addition to what **Lissa** mentioned about the efforts to help the remaining animals, an article appeared on [Yahoo! News](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030418/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_feeding_the_animals_2) stating that Kuwait was shipping about seven tons of food for the zoo. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2003, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-centuries-of-human-history/168771/226 "2003-04-19T20:02:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Estilicon \* > Actually Monty I am not kidding, I am a lawyer. Sadly, that’s probably true. I doubt very seriously, given your poor evidence evaluating skill, that you are a good one. [qutoe]The difference between you and me is that I can consider the possibility that I am wrong that is why I usually read other dopers words, consider them at least for a few nanoseconds and afterwards I try to argue with them (if I dare). [/quote] Bullshit. Pure bullshit. It’s so absolutley bullshit this comment of yours should be referred to as Vodka[sup]tm[/sup] Bullshit. You are forever stuck in a world-view of your own creation and refuse to look outside of it. > [@](#): > > You, on the other hand, always answer with a personal attack in, if I am lucky, two lines. More of your trademark BS. I recall distinctly asking you to consider how a jury would view something you asserted as fact, that thing itself not being a fact. You response was, well, let’s just say it wasn’t compelling. [qutoe]One day there will be a nice pit thread with your hide nailed to it. It won’t be today because this is one of the most important day of the catholic calendar and because of it I will forgive you, again, specially since I just escaped from church and instead of being singing to the glory of the lord I am wasting my time with you, again, so please would you care to say where I am wrong? [/QUOTE] I don’t give a flying rat’s behind about your forgiveness when I’ve done nothing wrong. Get off your lazy ass, you lieing sack of bigoted pustulence and try to pit me. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2003, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-centuries-of-human-history/168771/227 "2003-04-19T20:25:40Z")
“Who knows, Doctor Jones? Pehaps in a thousand years, even this thread will be worth something.” ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-centuries-of-human-history/168771/228 "2003-04-20T00:30:52Z")
Well Monty I can’t put myself in the position of a jury because there are no trials by juries in Argentina that role belongs to the judges. I ask you once again to tell me where I am wrong instead of continue to insult me. Of course, because this is the pit it is your privilege to continue to do so instead of saying exactly where I am wrong. > [@](#): > > Mister V and Monty, those soldiers have the responsability of mantaining order in Irak, after all they destroyed the authority there. The simple fact is that the administration was warned several times that this could happen. We have all seen the reports and the warnings of several scientist. > > Monty asks what they could have done to prevent this disaster, simple. In the first place they chose to invade, there was another option but that point is abstract right now. The second choice could have been caring a little more of museums and hospitals, instead of worring so much about oil. It’s a known fact that the only building that was protected during the early days of the looting was the oil ministry. > > The americans (and British) had many choices, they chose not do anything and for that I blame them. Where? Please surprise me and for once answer my posts instead of insulting me. I will concede you one thing I am not very good lawyer and that’s because I am fresh out of college. I am only 23 wait a few more years before questioning my abilities. p.s. I will never send you to the pit, after all I am not going to provide you with a chance to masturbate, I know how you enjoy being the center of attention. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-centuries-of-human-history/168771/229 "2003-04-20T00:39:58Z")
Then you are very lazy, Estilicon. There’s more than one pit thread “dedicated” to me. Feel free to add to one or more of them. A good point is that I have answered you before–you ignored that. Another point is that you said I always insult you–I don’t. Unless, of course, you take me thanking you as an insult. Yet another point is that when you were asked by me _ **AND OTHERS** _ to support your false assertion about America, you essentially replied that your assertion is correct because you asserted it. Now that’s masturbatory fantasy! Don’t worry. I’ll be happy to wait a few years. And, if your clients are lucky, perhaps you’ll have learned something by then. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-centuries-of-human-history/168771/230 "2003-04-20T00:43:01Z")
Oh, to answer your latest posting: You assert that the Coalition Forces chose to do nothing. Actually, they weren’t doing nothing. They were busy doing other things. Whether you like what those other things are is irrelevant; the fact remains that the Coalition Forces weren’t “doing nothing.” ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-centuries-of-human-history/168771/231 "2003-04-20T00:56:49Z")
There are many threads in the pit against you, not a single one of those was created by me. That was my point I will never send you to the pit. When I say that they chose to do nothing I was thinking that the persons that were reading my post had previously read THE FUCKING TEN PAGES OF THE THREAD. If you had, you would realize that the sentence should be read: “They chose to do nothing \*\* with regards of the lootings \*\*”. That is, I think esentially correct. And I told you several times that I am not an “American hater” card carrier. I like several things about your country and I dislike some other things, some “things” like Bush I despise. So don’t try to paint me with your thick brush. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-centuries-of-human-history/168771/232 "2003-04-20T01:05:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Yet another point is that when you were asked by me AND OTHERS to support your false assertion about America, you essentially replied that your assertion is correct because you asserted it. Now that’s masturbatory fantasy! I forgot this one cite? provide one or for once shut the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-centuries-of-human-history/168771/233 "2003-04-20T01:57:52Z")
You are certainly one absolutely worthless fool, Estilicon. The citation is when you were asked by me and others to prove that the United States planned on carpet bombing Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-centuries-of-human-history/168771/234 "2003-04-20T13:47:03Z")
We wil do this once again Monty. As you say my worst vice is that I am lazy so thank me for the effort because I just spent ten minutes looking for what I said on that occasion. Read carefully, I will even bold the key phrase for you: > [@](#): > > I can’t believe the idiocy of this whole paragraph. My friend war is the ultimate coercion. 3.000 innocent people died on 9-11? Yes. I can assure you that Osama wanted to kill at least 173.000 thousands. Unfortunatelly the 8th air fleet was unavailable and he had to use a couple of jumbos. I can’t believe your stupidity, you are about to use \*\*“saturation bombardments” \*\* in Irak and you are complaining about the terrorists. Again they would be more than happy to use your modern weapons, unfortunately (for you) they don’t have it so they have to use a cruder method depriving you of your honor. After all it’s not the same when 11 dirty arabs murder civilians than when 2 “knights in shining armour” (pilots) do the same. In retrospect I say that saturation bombardment was actually pretty much correct. In fact afterwards I said: > [@](#): > > I was shocked and angered and still I said “saturation bombardment” and not “carpet bombing”. The first expression was used the day before the tragedy in an argentinian radio to describe the “shock and awe” bombing campaign you are suppose to use in Irak. > > I won’t apologize for this one Monty, I will someday if you invade Irak and after using your “smart bombs” (I hope the man that coined the name wasn’t the same one behind C.I.A) your secretary of defense starts giving us lectures about “collateral damage”. Seeing what happened I won’t apologize. [You can read all of it in here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=162386&perpage=20&highlight=estilicon&pagenumber=3) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-centuries-of-human-history/168771/235 "2003-04-20T18:25:33Z")
I’m done with you, Estilicon. You continue to believe a delusion as to what you pretend the words of the English language mean. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-centuries-of-human-history/168771/236 "2003-04-20T18:34:07Z")
Left out the following: > [@](#): > > car·pet-bomb (kär p t-b m ) > tr. & intr.v. car·pet-·bombed, car·pet-·bomb·ing, car·pet-·bombs > To bomb in a systematic and extensive pattern, so as to devastate a large target area uniformly. > > car pet-bomb ing n. & > [@](#): > > “Saturation bombing” is just military doublespeak for “bombing the hell out of the general vicinity of the target.” Those familiar with it call it “carpet bombing,” describing the way it carpets the ground with craters and death afterwards. I got the first one from [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com) & the second one from a rules page for a wargaming site. From the way I’ve heard actual American military folks use both terms, this gives a good example of the terms being interchangeable. To assert that you didn’t mean one when you said the other isn’t correct. They are the same. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-centuries-of-human-history/168771/237 "2003-04-20T18:42:20Z")
> [@](#): > > car·pet-bomb (kär p t-b m ) > tr. & intr.v. car·pet-·bombed, car·pet-·bomb·ing, car·pet-·bombs > To bomb in a systematic and extensive pattern, so as to devastate a large target area uniformly. > > car pet-bomb ing n. & > [@](#): > > “Saturation bombing” is just military doublespeak for “bombing the hell out of the general vicinity of the target.” Those familiar with it call it “carpet bombing,” describing the way it carpets the ground with craters and death afterwards. I got the first one from [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com) & the second one from a rules page for a wargaming site. From the way I’ve heard actual American military folks use both terms, this gives a good example of the terms being interchangeable. To assert that you didn’t mean one when you said the other isn’t correct. They are the same. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-centuries-of-human-history/168771/238 "2003-04-20T23:00:09Z")
Carpet bombing is a an outdated technique that was used during WWII. Any student of history knows it. Nowadays you can devastate a city without it. I don’t frequent wargaming sites, I told you “bombardeos de saturación” was used by an argentinian radio station, to me it meant the launching of thousand of bombs (that actually happened). We can argue semantics all day the fact is you dropped on Irak hundreds, if not thousands of bombs, killing… well will never know with any degree of certainty how many people were killed (in doublespeak the amount of the collateral damage). Enough with the hijacking you are welcome to continue this discussion in front of a mirror, besos. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-centuries-of-human-history/168771.md?page=11)