# Fifty years later, does America need a stupider motto? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 30, 2006, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065 "2006-12-30T02:32:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065/61 "2006-12-30T16:39:31Z")
[QUOTE=Beware of Doug] **You Can’t Spell Jesus Without U.S.** [/QUOTE] If some loon picks this up and I begin seeing this on bumper stickers, I’m stealing a packet of them and coming to your house to plaster your windows with them. yeeesh! Do you have to give the zealots and bigots ideas? (Or SHUDDER have you actually seen this already?) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065/62 "2006-12-30T17:01:09Z")
I gotta throw in with the “America – Fuck Yeah!” folks. It’s just too perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065/63 "2006-12-30T18:09:39Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] In the middle of the nineteenth century, there was a mad drive by a few loons to make (Protestant) Christianity the “true” religion of the U.S. (Constitution be damned) to make sure that those horrible Catholic immigrants did not get any wild ideas that they might be welcome. The only result of their failed effort was that, in the midst of the Civil War, someone talked the Treasury Secretary into having “In God We Trust” placed on U.S. coins. [/QUOTE] Technically, the Treasury Secretary that put “In God We Trust” on coins was one of those horrible Catholics, himself…Salmon P. Chase. It doesn’t look like the spirit behind slogan was really anti-Catholic sentiment. The originator of the idea seems to be a Baptist minister from Pennsylvania, the Rev. Mark Watkinson. Watkinson wrote Chase a letter, excerpts are as follows: > [@](#): > > One fact touching our currency has hitherto been seriously overlooked. I mean the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins. > > You are probably a Christian. What if our Republic were not shattered beyond reconstruction? Would not the antiquaries of succeeding centuries rightly reason from our past that we were a heathen nation? What I propose is that instead of the goddess of liberty [which was on US coins at the time] we shall have next inside the 13 stars a ring inscribed with the words PERPETUAL UNION; within the ring the allseeing eye, crowned with a halo; beneath this eye the American flag, bearing in its field stars equal to the number of the States united; in the folds of the bars the words GOD, LIBERTY, LAW. > > This would make a beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object. This would relieve us from the ignominy of heathenism. This would place us openly under the Divine protection we have personally claimed. From my hearth I have felt our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters. So, in response, Chase, who was pretty religious himself, wrote a letter to the director of the mint, saying: > [@](#): > > Dear Sir: No nation can be strong except in the strength of God, or safe except in His defense. The trust of our people in God should be declared on our national coins. > > You will cause a device to be prepared without unnecessary delay with a motto expressing in the fewest and tersest words possible this national recognition. The director of the mint suggested two possible slogans, either “Our Country; Our God”, or God; Our Trust" ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065/64 "2006-12-30T18:15:36Z")
I need to correct my previous post. In it, I said that Secretary of the Treasury Chase was a Catholic. He was not. He was an Episcopalian. He was also the only cabinet secretary to be named after a fish. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065/65 "2006-12-30T18:48:43Z")
I suspect that the fact that a nation of fairly religious people found themselves in a horrendous war made the idea of placing a religious motto on coins a acceptable idea and I do not think that Chase was ever connected to the “Protestant Christian” country movement. I have read, somewhere, that Watkinson was an active member of the [National Reform Association](http://www.natreformassn.org/), (then known (until 1875) as The National Association to Secure the Religious Amendment to the Constitution), but I cannot find that connection documented, now, so I am willing to withdraw that claim until I can find a citation for it. In its place I would leave the much weaker claim that a number of Protestant Christians were embracing the idea of changing the Constitution to make it a Protestant document and that such a spirit might have influenced Watkinson, (leaving Chase out of that discussion, completely). ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065/66 "2006-12-30T18:51:01Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] I gotta throw in with the “America – Fuck Yeah!” folks. It’s just too perfect. [/QUOTE] Shouldn’t that be “America – Fuck You”? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065/67 "2006-12-30T19:02:13Z")
Ah! I have found the connection, (and I am willing to ackowledge that the source may contain just a touch of bias). While Watkinson wrote the letter inspiring Chase, the National Reform Association connection was not (necessarily) Watkinson, but the director of the mint, James Pollock, [whom _Infidels_ claims was an NRA member](http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jon_murray/coins.html). Interestingly, this source muddies the water, a bit. According to the NRA, they were organized in 1861 (which would have coincided both with the appointment of Pollock and the letter of Watkinson). However, the Jon G. Murray article on _Infidels_ claims that the NRA was founded in 1863, meaning that while there may have been a general movement to “Christianize” the U.S. at the time of the letter and coin decisions\*, it would not actually have been possible for the organized group to have participated in that action. - (Regardless whether the founding was 1861 or 1863, it seems unlikely that an organization could have been created had there not been a general movement and exchange of ideas that preceeded it.) ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065/68 "2006-12-30T19:08:19Z")
[QUOTE=rayh] Shouldn’t that be “America – Fuck You”? [/QUOTE] No, and Fuck Anyone who says it should be. America – Fuck Yeah. Just _try_ having malaise when _that’s_ your motto. Concerning “In God We Trust”, that dweeb Francis Scott Key _thought_ it was our motto as long ago as 1812: > [@](#): > > Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just, > And this be our motto: “In God is our trust.” His phrasing is even worse, combining the backward construction with the passive voice. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065/69 "2006-12-30T19:13:33Z")
[QUOTE=rayh] Shouldn’t that be “America – Fuck You”? [/QUOTE] No. We are talking about the lyrics of the theme music to “Team AmericaL World Police”. Though your version wouldn’t be a bad alternate, at internayional sporting events like the Olympics, for instance. The American spectators could use it against any and all opposition teams. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065/70 "2006-12-30T19:23:55Z")
Snafu? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065/71 "2006-12-30T19:36:21Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] I need to correct my previous post. In it, I said that Secretary of the Treasury Chase was a Catholic. He was not. He was an Episcopalian. He was also the only cabinet secretary to be named after a fish. [/QUOTE] Is there no end to the [ignorance](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_Fish)? ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065/72 "2006-12-30T19:46:55Z")
Some more suggested mottos for a stupider America: “American Enjenuity” “Vive l’America” “This Coin Is Probably Not Counterfeit” “Any Resemblance Between America And A Democracy Is Purely Coincidental” “America, Where All Our Dollar Bills Have Trace Amounts of Cocaine” “If You’re Not With Us You’re With Somebody Else Who May Or May Not Be With Us” “John 3:16” “You Want Fries With That?” “Here, Have Some More Pollution!” “Debt Before Dishonor” “Doing The Right Thing When All Other Options Have Been Exhausted” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065/73 "2006-12-30T20:12:22Z")
Oooh, how about this: There’s the right way, the wrong way – and the American way! (Which is much like the wrong way, only with more sparklies on it.) ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065/74 "2006-12-30T21:15:04Z")
[QUOTE=Terrifel] Legislators also remarked favorably on its weirdly bass-ackwards phrasing, “which calls to mind the speech of a comical Chinaman, or of some type of puppet from a science fiction serial of some kind.” [/QUOTE] Nowadays, of course, we wouldn’t use such a culturally insensitive simile. Instead, we would say that it sounds like Yoda. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065/75 "2006-12-30T22:25:56Z")
“May contain nuts” ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065/76 "2006-12-30T22:35:54Z")
[QUOTE=MEBuckner] Canada’s motto is [_A Mari Usque Ad Mare_](http://www.canadianencyclopedia.ca/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&ArticleId=A0000001), “From Sea to Sea” (which [they obviously stole from us](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_the_Beautiful)). The motto of Quebec is [_Je me souviens_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Je_me_souviens), French for “I remember” (or as I always like to say, it’s Canadian French for “Fergit, hell!”) [/QUOTE] Thank you. Obviously I’m not from Quebec 😛 . Charlie Tan, I like that last one. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065/77 "2006-12-30T22:45:28Z")
How about “We apologize for the inconvenience.” ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065/78 "2006-12-30T22:47:46Z")
We need an advertising slogan to remind us that America’s business is business. “We are Professional Grage.” “Think Different. Not too much, though…” “This isn’t your Grandfather’s America!” [QUOTE=Captain Amazing] He was also the only cabinet secretary to be named after a fish. [/QUOTE] Before or after he was appointed? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065/79 "2006-12-30T23:01:13Z")
> [@Capt. Amazing](#): > > I need to correct my previous post. In it, I said that Secretary of the Treasury Chase was a Catholic. He was not. He was an Episcopalian. He was also the only cabinet secretary to be named after a fish. You forgot Ulysses S. Grant’s [Secretary of State](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_Fish). ---
**Author:** ![The\_The](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/96bed5/32.png) [@The\_The](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_The)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065/80 "2006-12-30T23:04:58Z")
Oh dear, too many good ones! America - Fuck YEAH! is great, however I would like to submit a more ‘hip’ alternate. “America-Hells Yeah!” Could resonate with the youth, but runs the risk of being embarassingly unhip in a few years. Or Drewbert’s “Trust us; we know what we’re doing.” could be Jack Bauer’d up as, “We don’t have to me to explain, you’re going to have to trust us!”. . .a bit wordy, but will perhaps save a great deal of time at the U.N. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fifty-years-later-does-america-need-a-stupider-motto/386065.md?page=5)