# Fight breaks out at Red Sox - Yankees game... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 24, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fight-breaks-out-at-red-sox-yankees-game/256726 "2004-07-24T21:25:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fight-breaks-out-at-red-sox-yankees-game/256726/41 "2004-07-25T16:42:46Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I’d have loved to see Clemens step into the box in front of Piazza the next inning after the broken-bat throw, wouldn’t you? Remember when a Mets pitcher (Shawn Estes) finally had a shot at him, at Shea, and missed him by a yard? It sucks to be a Mets fan. You pack the stadium just to see Clemens get hit, and the pitcher can’t even hit Clemens in the behind. It’s not that small a target – I think even I could do it from 60 feet, 6 inches. As for charging the mound, I’d rather see that than what A Rod did. Usually it is just tough guy posturing, mouthing off and gesturing, waiting for your team mates to get there and “hold you back.” If you’re going to go after a guy, go after him. That’s why I like what Hunter did. He didn’t sit there and cuss, he gave the ball right back. I don’t beleive Hunter has been intentionally plunked since. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fight-breaks-out-at-red-sox-yankees-game/256726/42 "2004-07-25T16:44:59Z")
I blame Bush. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fight-breaks-out-at-red-sox-yankees-game/256726/43 "2004-07-25T16:45:18Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > FTR, Kapler and Lofton were ejected along with Varitek and A-Hole, but the announcers (Sox radio, not just Fox) did not know that until after the game. Yeah, just after i made my post on the matter last night i saw a NYT report saying that those two players had also been ejected. I guess no-one noticed because they weren’t in the starting line-ups. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I’d have loved to see Clemens step into the box in front of Piazza the next inning after the broken-bat throw, wouldn’t you? Damn right. Although i think Piazza felt pretty good after the first inning of this year’s All-Star Game. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fight-breaks-out-at-red-sox-yankees-game/256726/44 "2004-07-25T16:45:45Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It was pretty obvious that A-Rod was nailed intentionally. I don’t think it was obvious at all. He was hit on the tip of his elbow with what looked like a breaking ball of some sort. Not exactly typical intentional plunking locations there. Plus, it was Alex’s second time up. I’m not seeing it. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2004, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fight-breaks-out-at-red-sox-yankees-game/256726/45 "2004-07-25T16:54:53Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > I don’t think it was obvious at all. He was hit on the tip of his elbow with what looked like a breaking ball of some sort. Not exactly typical intentional plunking locations there. Plus, it was Alex’s second time up. > > I’m not seeing it. Yeah, i don’t think it was intentional. Arroyo seems to have a bit of a problem with his control at times. He’s [third](http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_league_leaders.jsp?statType=2&sortByStat=HBP&baseballScope=mlb&timeSubFrame=2004) on the list of pitchers with hit batters this year, having done it 14 times. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2004, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fight-breaks-out-at-red-sox-yankees-game/256726/46 "2004-07-26T02:17:53Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Doesn’t change the fact that there might be more _incentive_ for pitchers to hit batters, if they know that they won’t have to face a pitch themselves. Apparently there ISN’T more incentive, because in 31 years of DH play it just doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. Unless there’s some counter-incentive? As for the beanball wars… meh. Yankees-Red Sox confrontations have a pitiful, man-beats-child feeling to them. You know that if they’re playing a meaningful game in late September or October, the Red Sox will find a way to blow it. It’s easier to respect a team that actually wins meaningful games, and it’s impossible for me to get behind a team I can’t respect. But you can’t count on a Marlins-Yankees brawl to add some flavour to things. The Yankees need a REAL rival. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2004, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fight-breaks-out-at-red-sox-yankees-game/256726/47 "2004-07-26T02:35:48Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Yeah, i don’t think it was intentional. > > Arroyo seems to have a bit of a problem with his control at times. He’s [third](http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_league_leaders.jsp?statType=2&sortByStat=HBP&baseballScope=mlb&timeSubFrame=2004) on the list of pitchers with hit batters this year, having done it 14 times. I have to comment on this. I know that \*sometimes \* a pitcher will throw at a batter intentionally. But I have a real problem whenever someone says they _know_ a pitcher threw at someone intentionally. The only one that knows is the pitcher. Everyone else is speculatin’. I am even more annoyed when someone uses the ‘pinpoint accuracy’ argument. “Pedro throws with pinpoint accuracy, so it \*had \* to be intentional!” This is bullshit, of course. First off, if a pitcher had such pinpoint control, he woudn’t walk anyone. And he probably wouldn’t have given up any home runs neither. Even the finest pitcher with the best control and a heart of pure fucking gold is gonna hit some guys. Why? Because a pitcher HAS to throw inside to be successful. He HAS to be able to drive that batter off the plate. And every now and then, a pitch is gonna get away from him. [sub]Yes, I know **mhendo** is not the guy that was saying it was intentional[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2004, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fight-breaks-out-at-red-sox-yankees-game/256726/48 "2004-07-26T02:42:51Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Apparently there ISN’T more incentive, because in 31 years of DH play it just doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. Unless there’s some counter-incentive? Are you dismissing, out of hand, then, the studies that i cited above? While the authors of those studies certainly conceded that their results are not incontrovertible, they do provide a rather compelling argument that the “moral hazard” theory of plunking has some basis. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2004, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fight-breaks-out-at-red-sox-yankees-game/256726/49 "2004-07-26T02:56:36Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > I am even more annoyed when someone uses the ‘pinpoint accuracy’ argument. “Pedro throws with pinpoint accuracy, so it \*had \* to be intentional!” > > This is bullshit, of course. First off, if a pitcher had such pinpoint control, he woudn’t walk anyone. And he probably wouldn’t have given up any home runs neither. I’m gonna second this. I think it was Jim Bouton who said that when he was growing up he was always in awe of these professional pitchers that had pinpoint accuracy with their pitches and he couldn’t imagine that because the best he could do was get it within a foot of where he was aiming. Then he was being scouted and found out that was what they meant by pinpoint control. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fight-breaks-out-at-red-sox-yankees-game/256726.md?page=2)