# Fighter jets! (Or something...) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 11, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943 "2011-09-11T15:24:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/1 "2011-09-11T15:24:07Z")
Yesterday I read a [pictorial history](http://www.amazon.com/Edwards-Force-Base-Images-Aviation/dp/0738580775) of many aircraft that flew at Edwards AFB. I’m not sure where I’m going with this thread. we had a ‘favourite fighters’ thread a couple/few years ago, and one on bombers too. So it’s not really about that. I was born during the Space Age and, while the Cold War was on, I wasn’t around for the Cold War hysteria of the '50s or the Post-War optimism then either. Still, I think this thread might be in part about life in the Post-War Era. Or about the strides made in aviation and space. Or something. I tend to ‘maintain an even strain’ and don’t display my emotions often; but I think this might be a thread about ‘feelings’ evoked by seeing the images in the book. I’ll start with the Mojave Desert… Living in L.A., I heard people talking about the ‘boring drive’ to Las Vegas. I lived in the desert as a teen and young adult, so I had and have a different impression. The desert is beautiful and interesting. There’s yellow sand and grey-green bushes and tan tumbleweeds and white and red and orange and purple flowers and black and grey and red and brown rocks. There are rocky outcroppings and hills and mountains that rise from the sand like the cores of frozen volcanos that are being uncovered by erosion. There are washes where water flows down from the San Gabriel and San Bernardino Mountains. And there are Joshua trees. Tom Wolfe described them as ‘arthritic’ in _The Right Stuff_. Yep, they’re pretty angular. There’s an old joke that you know you’ve been in the Antelope Valley too long when you start thinking of Joshua trees as actual trees. There are lines of willows people planted as windbreaks, that provide a cool place to walk in the desert sun. And above all is the sky; a great blue bowl overhead, often with with high cumulus clouds. This is the backdrop against which silver wings streaked through the upper reaches, leaving contrails and sonic booms in their wakes. Aside from airliners, silver wings are scarce. Air Superiority Grey is all the rage now, or various camouflage schemes. General Aviation aircraft of the '50s and '60s were often bare metal. For a couple of decades they were white with [stripes](http://pw1.netcom.com/~heliboy/n42546b.jpg) or else [larger contrasting areas](http://pw1.netcom.com/~heliboy/n84573a.jpg). Now the trend seems to be what I call [Bold](http://dmm.broadchoice.com/custom/_292d/content/images/Pic3-63251.JPG) [New](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ja676MG45Zg/S8EH3P72zjI/AAAAAAAADEo/ROP3IPbg9-k/s1600/cessna-172-skyhawk.jpg) [Graphics](http://www.genesisflightacademy.com/images/Cessna172.jpg). But back before I was born and shortly thereafter, our fighter jets and bombers were silver. And cool, too. Anyone remember the [B-58 Hustler](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Convair_YB-58A-1-CF_Hustler_55-661.jpg)? I had a model of one when I was a kid. How cool would it have been to see one of those fly over? Or an [F-104 Starfighter](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:F-104_right_side_view.jpg)? Or an [F-102 Delta Dagger](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:F-102_NMUSAF.jpg) or [F-106 Delta Dart](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eclipse_program_QF-106_aircraft_in_flight,_view_from_tanker.jpg)? None of the planes of that era would stand a chance against the planes we have today. They would be hard put to survive a fight with the ones we had in the early-'70s. (Some of those designs are still front-line today.) But they were cutting-edge at the time. I imagine those idealistic young men climbing aboard those aircraft to protect Truth, Justice, and the American Way. Or taking an unproven design into the air over the desert to wring it out and try to discover ways to make them better – or to see if they were even viable at all. Lots of guys died testing designs that came to naught. By the time I got to Edwards the ‘cowboy’ days were over. Even in the '50s there were regulations. But in flight testing people were still learning back then. The photos in the book show a more casual attitude to this dangerous profession. The first lifting body was built as a small balsa-and-tissue model. When NASA gave approval for engineers to pursue it, they built one out of steel tubing and plywood and towed it aloft the first several times behind a hot-rodded Plymouth. From that humble beginning came the data that led to the Space Shuttle. Today it can take a decade or more to put an airplane into production. In the '50s a new design might go from the drawing board, through flight testing, and into production in five years. Things were happening fast. Chuck Yeager said that in his day pilots would fly a large number of different aircraft; today a pilot might fly three types in his whole career. Different times. So what is this thread about? I still don’t know. It’s just… I look at these old photos and think, ‘Wow.’ ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/2 "2011-09-11T15:41:18Z")
For my money, I still think the F16 is all kinds of awesome. I was just looking over the wikipedia page for it. First flight in early 1974. I was 11 years old. Introduced to service late 1978 when I was 16. “Over 4,450 F-16s had been delivered by July 2010.” “The F-16 is scheduled to remain in service with the U.S. Air Force until 2025” ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/3 "2011-09-11T16:55:09Z")
The [MIG-25](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/Russian_Air_Force_MiG-25.jpg) looks all kinds of awesome. It looks like it could fly into space with it’s huge engines. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/4 "2011-09-11T17:20:55Z")
Back when I was a kidlet in the 1950s we would see planes from Edwards flying over the LA basin. (silver with bright orange tails) We also heard sonic booms on a regular basis. In the early 60s my cousin had a house in the wilds of the San Fernando valley (seriously 2 blocks from his house was where the houses ended and it was all orange groves) Anyway when they did a rocket engine test in the Santa Susana pass his house would shake and the sky lit up. Good times. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/5 "2011-09-11T17:39:18Z")
I can still remember Armed Forces Day at [Truax Field](https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Truax_Air_National_Guard_Base). As kids we got to talk with real pilots and actually climb over active aircraft, including Delta Daggers. Sure there were aircraft on the flightline that were roped off, just in case the Ruskies launched an attack that day. But we could sit in the cockpits of other live aircraft in hangers and on the tarmac. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/6 "2011-09-11T19:01:57Z")
My mom talks about watching the B-36’s take off/landing at Kirtland AFB, while working at the VA hospital. If she was on a break, she go outside to watch these monsters (they were pretty loud machines from what she remembered). At the time, they dwarfed and other plane that was flying in the US. I saw a B-58 Hustler in a museum. The plane was smaller then I envisioned; but it was the [escape capsule](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:B-58_Escape_Capsule.jpg) that gave me the willies about claustrophobia. I suppose the bear they used to test it felt the same way. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/7 "2011-09-11T23:01:36Z")
> [@user\_hostile](#): > > … > I saw a B-58 Hustler in a museum. The plane was smaller then I envisioned; but it was the [escape capsule](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:B-58_Escape_Capsule.jpg) that gave me the willies about claustrophobia. > > … That is some kind of awsome! ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/8 "2011-09-11T23:56:47Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > How cool would it have been to see one of those fly over? Or an [F-104 Starfighter](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:F-104_right_side_view.jpg)? 🆒 PRANG flew the 104 until '75. And flying out of SJU airport much of their training took them just so that from the window of my middle school classroom you could see and hear them shoot past on their way out and then back home. And of course if you were having a beach day around Isla Verde or Piñones (next to SJU) you could be next to the takeoff runway or right under the climb path. For an 11 year old that look and that sound was just absolutely “right” and it’s never leaving me… ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/9 "2011-09-12T01:56:46Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Today it can take a decade or more to put an airplane into production. In the '50s a new design might go from the drawing board, through flight testing, and into production in five years. Things were happening fast. Chuck Yeager said that in his day pilots would fly a large number of different aircraft; today a pilot might fly three types in his whole career. Different times. Aerospace programs these days are huge by design, because that way all the goodies can be parceled out ahead of time, by a political process, before technical realities crop up and start constraining people’s actions. In other words, years ago if the military needed a new bomber, they called up Boeing, Douglas, North American, Grumman, etc. and had them compete, maybe even build prototypes. Now, the military and its advisory boards decide ahead of time exactly what the plane should look like, lard it up with every conceivable capability whether it currently exists or not, and then dispense slices of it to every contractor, of which there are not many left. ---
**Author:** ![Jaxnative1210](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@Jaxnative1210](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaxnative1210)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/10 "2011-09-12T02:07:54Z")
I live just north of Ellington Field, Texas. I remember F-16 fighters flying sorties out of here. It brought back memories of being around my dad’s naval bases. I remember seeing F4 Phantoms, A4 Skyhawks, A6 Corsairs, EA6B Prowlers, C1A traders, E2C Hawkeyes, T39 Sabreliners…every time I smell jet exhaust it takes me back to being a kid. I can remember walking the flight line with dad in front of a whole squadron of P3 orions…that was one of the coolest things about my childhood…so now I have to get my fix with the Wings Over Houston airshow. One good thing, I guess…The Lone Star Flight museum will now be practically in my back yard… ---
**Author:** ![Cabin\_Fever\_1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cabin_fever_1/32/2908_2.png) [@Cabin\_Fever\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabin_Fever_1)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/11 "2011-09-12T02:40:24Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > So what is this thread about? I still don’t know. It’s just… I look at these old photos and think, ‘Wow.’ I know what this thread about. It’s about flying. Above the ground, on wings that we humans don’t have. I have read many of your posts **Mr L.A.** , and wish I could just take off from my perch for a few minutes, escape and enjoy shedding our otherwise earthly bounds. As a side note: my Uncle who was USAF back when I was a wee lad gave me a model of the Hustler. I so wanted to be in that pilot seat and fly that bad boy. Still do. One can dream right? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/12 "2011-09-12T02:45:52Z")
> [@Cabin\_Fever](#): > > I know what this thread about. > It’s about flying. Above the ground, on wings that we humans don’t have. Very appropriate username/post. That’s part of it. And I’m remedying that. (See the other thread.) It might also be remembering when I was young and working at a very exciting place. Maybe it’s about living in a harsh climate in a stark (but beautiful!) landscape. Perhaps it’s about cowboys. ---
**Author:** ![Cabin\_Fever\_1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cabin_fever_1/32/2908_2.png) [@Cabin\_Fever\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabin_Fever_1)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/13 "2011-09-12T03:07:50Z")
I can understand. I have a very basic, undefined, irrational desire to go purchase an Ultralight since I do not have the budget or cash in my wallet for a G5, although they are very nice. However, the cockpit is where I would prefer to hang out, so all those other “amenities” would be wasted on me. I just have a hankering to float above the ground, perhaps skirt the the clouds, look down at the terrain and be glad I am one with the air. And perhaps being able to afford pontoons so I could keep the camping expenses to a minimum. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/14 "2011-09-12T03:14:26Z")
[Here you go](http://motors.shop.ebay.com:80/Aircraft-/63676/i.html?_dmd=1&_dmpt=Motors_Aircraft&_ipg=200&_mqf=0&_pcats=6038%2C6000&_qfkw=1&_sc=1&_sop=10&_sticky=1&_trksid=p4506.c0.m273&_fpos=98230&_lsbx=0&_fspt=0&_flso=0&Type=Ultralights). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Cabin\_Fever\_1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cabin_fever_1/32/2908_2.png) [@Cabin\_Fever\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabin_Fever_1)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/15 "2011-09-12T03:25:01Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [Here you go](http://motors.shop.ebay.com:80/Aircraft-/63676/i.html?_dmd=1&_dmpt=Motors_Aircraft&_ipg=200&_mqf=0&_pcats=6038%2C6000&_qfkw=1&_sc=1&_sop=10&_sticky=1&_trksid=p4506.c0.m273&_fpos=98230&_lsbx=0&_fspt=0&_flso=0&Type=Ultralights). 😉 Dang there goes my budget…😃 [What I would like to be doing right now](http://youtu.be/0Qvfc1wwZVE) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/16 "2011-09-12T07:41:03Z")
I loved the F-101, because the [Voodoo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_F-101_Voodoo) was the coolest name. And I’m saving up for a B-36. I’m not sure yet how to destroy the Earth, but I’m pretty sure it has to be done from the cockpit of a B-36. Once I get one – goodbye y’all! ---
**Author:** ![cherry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cherry)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/17 "2011-09-12T08:29:31Z")
I always like driving up Miramar and watching the fighter planes go in circles but I’m glad I don’t live there. Although we get loud helicopters on the coast. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/18 "2011-09-12T16:01:06Z")
Fun thread! As a kid if the 80’s naturally I’m of the opinion that the [F-14 Tomcat](http://www.swordsmen.org/aviat-gall/tomcat3.jpg) was (hell, still is!) the greatest of all fighters. Another favorite was the [English Electric Lightning](http://www.touchdown-aviation.com/image.php?src=/2009/reports/24_bruntingthorpe/181_25041.jpg&action=resize%28430%29), solely due to it’s cool stacked twin-engined design. I’m sure you’ve all hopped into a fast jet in your favorite sim and headed to the canyons for some crazy low level flying. I only wish I could do it for [real!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d93WqklSzBI&feature=related) ---
**Author:** ![Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crown_Prince_of_Irony)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/19 "2011-09-12T16:08:23Z")
I grew up near [Beale AFB](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beale_afb), so I’ve always been partial to the [SR-71](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR-71). The thing looks [badass](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Sr71_1.jpg), and goes like hell - you can fly from Portland to San Francisco during a coffee break. Although I love seeing **any** military aircraft in action. One time a few years ago my wife and I went to a Costco in Hillsboro, OR, and as we were going into the store from the parking lot, we heard this low rumbling. As first I thought it was an earthquake, but then all the sudden the _freaking Blue Angels_ fly overhead only a few hundred feet up, screaming like banshees, blowing smoke and looking all kinds of awesome. I had totally forgotten that the Oregon Int’l Airshow was going on that weekend, with the Hillsboro airport only a couple blocks away. I stood in the parking lot, craning upward, oblivious to anything, while my wife rolled her eyes and took the kids inside to start shopping. I stayed out there until their show ended, and then went inside with a huge grin on my face. Best Costco trip _ever_. ---
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/20 "2011-09-12T21:53:28Z")
I was always partial to the [Clunk](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_CF-100_Canuck) or to its would be successor the[Arrow](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Arrow). Another reason to hate Conservatives. They should have kept at least one to put in a museum. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943.md?page=2)