# Fighter jets! (Or something...) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 11, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943 "2011-09-11T15:24:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/21 "2011-09-12T22:07:55Z")
Ah, yes, the brilliant design team at Avro, who gave us [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_VZ-9_Avrocar), er, paragon of high performance aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/22 "2011-09-12T22:24:26Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Ah, yes, the brilliant design team at Avro, who gave us [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_VZ-9_Avrocar), er, paragon of high performance aircraft. The instability of this aircraft–would digital computers have solved the stability problems? Or, as I would guess, it never worked the way they thought it would? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/23 "2011-09-12T22:48:01Z")
Maybe computers plus an engine with 10 or 20 times the power. 🙂 IIRC, it was never able to climb more than about 5’ off the ground. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/24 "2011-09-12T22:57:11Z")
What exactly was the reasoning behind saucer aircraft? Was it just vertical takeoff/landing, or were there other reason to pursue the design? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/25 "2011-09-12T23:10:08Z")
I’m not sure, but I think it might be related to the “flying wing” concept – theoretically a more efficient design than a conventional fuselage with wings. ---
**Author:** ![wedgehed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8edcca/32.png) [@wedgehed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wedgehed)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/26 "2011-09-13T00:26:01Z")
My random, pointless aircraft thoughts… I was in the US Air Force during the late '70s/early '80s. I was stationed at RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge for most of my tour. I worked in aircraft maintenance. I worked on F-4Ds for about a year until we got some brand spanking new A-10s. I’m no aircraft expert, & God knows I was green as hell, but the F-4 scared the crap out of me. I never imagined that an aircraft could so dangerous to life & limb without leaving the ground. The F-15 was the hot new plane when I first got to England. Occasionally, one would land at our base. The F-15 jocks would always show off when they left by going into a max climb off the end of the runway. For days afterward, the F-4 pilots would try try their best to copy their brethren. The effect was not the same. On TDY to Germany I got to see the German pilots flying their F-104s. They looked pretty wicked with the camo paint job & the Iron Cross on the side. I learned all about the F-104’s lovely reputation as a “Widowmaker”. I saw a Brit Vulcan bomber taking off from Bentwaters one day. Shades of _Thunderball_! That was an evil looking beast! I also saw my first Harrier while I was there. It was kind of mind blowing to see a jet aircraft just hanging in midair. The A-10 was pretty much a dream to work on compared to the F-4. The pilots really seemed to enjoy flying them. Sadly, they may have been too much fun. I had never gone through the experience of losing a pilot until we got the A-10s. We lost a full bird colonel when his wingtip hit the ground during an airshow at another base. The story I heard was that he attempted to fly between two hangers. (As an aside - I learned to dread seeing a 2nd Lt or a full bird climb into a cockpit.) We lost another pilot & two planes when they attempted some tricky maneuver while flying in formation. Did you know that a UFO landed at my base while I was there? I read about it two years after I left the service. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/27 "2011-09-13T01:03:56Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > What exactly was the reasoning behind saucer aircraft? Was it just vertical takeoff/landing, or were there other reason to pursue the design? Maneuverability, perhaps. When I was very young B-58 Hustlers would fly over my Grandfather’s farm and return without the weapons pod. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/28 "2011-09-13T01:35:41Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Maneuverability, perhaps. > > When I was very young B-58 Hustlers would fly over my Grandfather’s farm and return without the weapons pod. 🙂 That is so cool. I love all things aircraft/space race. I appreciate it more now that I work in Structural Engineering and have the power of CAD programs to help me. There really is something to be said of those old plane designs from the 50s and 60s. They really tested the boundary, and without the tools I take for granted today, ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/29 "2011-09-13T01:47:29Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > That is so cool. It scared the shit out of me at five! I thought they were coming back from bombing the USSR. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/30 "2011-09-13T02:11:45Z")
I always liked the[Saab Draken](http://www.google.com/imgres?q=saab+draken&um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&sa=N&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1366&bih=639&tbm=isch&tbnid=tmB-Ft8l8wrlWM:&imgrefurl=http://militaryworld.blog37.fc2.com/blog-entry-26.html&docid=rfuGKj0p_XTqjM&w=640&h=419&ei=4bluTuuMH8LFsQL5mZD0CQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=546&vpy=320&dur=94&hovh=182&hovw=278&tx=202&ty=82&page=1&tbnh=146&tbnw=144&start=0&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0) as a kid. The British have a knack for turning every aircraft into a piece of art and Lockheed products all look like they were years ahead of their time. The A-12/SR-71 variants still look like they’re from the future and they’re all museum pieces. It was the highlight of any airshow to see an SR-71 go by because they had such a small cross section and they would always fly them out of the west so the sun made it even harder to spot. I get chills just thinking of them going by. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/31 "2011-09-13T02:21:32Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I always liked the[Saab Draken](http://www.google.com/imgres?q=saab+draken&um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&sa=N&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1366&bih=639&tbm=isch&tbnid=tmB-Ft8l8wrlWM:&imgrefurl=http://militaryworld.blog37.fc2.com/blog-entry-26.html&docid=rfuGKj0p_XTqjM&w=640&h=419&ei=4bluTuuMH8LFsQL5mZD0CQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=546&vpy=320&dur=94&hovh=182&hovw=278&tx=202&ty=82&page=1&tbnh=146&tbnw=144&start=0&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0) as a kid. … Which reminds me of the [Saab Viggen](http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/saab_37_viggen.htm). From the right angle it kinda looks like one plane piggybacked on another. Very cool looking. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/32 "2011-09-13T02:38:17Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > Fun thread! > > As a kid if the 80’s naturally I’m of the opinion that the [F-14 Tomcat](http://www.swordsmen.org/aviat-gall/tomcat3.jpg) was (hell, still is!) the greatest of all fighters. We went to the California Capital Airshow this past Sunday, and saw a demonstration by the F-18E Super Hornet, which is the Navy’s replacement for the F-14. The pilot did a flyby that I think was supposed to be just barely subsonic, but he ‘missed’. It looked almost \*exactly \*like [this](http://newzonfire.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/3.jpg). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/33 "2011-09-13T02:52:01Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > It looked almost \*exactly \*like [this](http://newzonfire.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/3.jpg). 😃 A fighter plane wearing a tutu? :dubious: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/34 "2011-09-13T03:02:01Z")
It’s the new gay-tolerant Navy. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/35 "2011-09-13T03:28:00Z")
> [@Jaxnative1210](#): > > so now I have to get my fix with the Wings Over Houston airshow. One good thing, I guess… This year, in addition to the Canadian Snowbirds and the usual ‘Tora Tora Tora’ pyrotechnic spectacular, the flying acts will include ‘Fifi’, the last flyable B-29; a jet formation of three L-39s and a MiG -17; and another jet formation of F-86 Sabres. I’m seriously stoked. > [@](#): > > The Lone Star Flight museum will now be practically in my back yard… Which, to bring things full circle, has a B-58 Hustler in their collection, although it wasn’t on display, last I checked, due to damage, presumably, from Hurricane Ike. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/36 "2011-09-13T04:51:34Z")
> [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](#): > > I grew up near [Beale AFB](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beale_afb), so I’ve always been partial to the [SR-71](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR-71). > > The thing looks [badass](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Sr71_1.jpg), and goes like hell - you can fly from Portland to San Francisco during a coffee break. > Although I love seeing **any** military aircraft in action. One time a few years ago my wife and I went to a Costco in Hillsboro, OR, and as we were going into the store from the parking lot, we heard this low rumbling. As first I thought it was an earthquake, but then all the sudden the _freaking Blue Angels_ fly overhead only a few hundred feet up, screaming like banshees, blowing smoke and looking all kinds of awesome. > > I had totally forgotten that the Oregon Int’l Airshow was going on that weekend, with the Hillsboro airport only a couple blocks away. I stood in the parking lot, craning upward, oblivious to anything, while my wife rolled her eyes and took the kids inside to start shopping. > > I stayed out there until their show ended, and then went inside with a huge grin on my face. Best Costco trip _ever_. The Amazing - this plane was designed 50 years ago by engineers with slide rules. The Bogus - at both on the ground and subsonic, it leaks the world’s most expensive jet fuel like a sieve. Only at speed…with atmospheric friction…does the skin heat up enough for the skin to expand and the seams to be fluid-tight. The “badass” URL shows a leaking Blackbird about to be refueled in air. ---
**Author:** ![Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crown_Prince_of_Irony)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/37 "2011-09-13T06:49:03Z")
> [@Enola\_Straight](#): > > The Amazing - this plane was designed 50 years ago by engineers with slide rules. > > The Bogus - at both on the ground and subsonic, it leaks the world’s most expensive jet fuel like a sieve. Only at speed…with atmospheric friction…does the skin heat up enough for the skin to expand and the seams to be fluid-tight. > > The “badass” URL shows a leaking Blackbird about to be refueled in air. I’m well aware that the SRs leaked like a colander. As a kid, I had a friend whose dad was a maintenance tech for the SRs at Beale, although I didn’t know at the time - I only found out from him years later, after most of the project had been declassified (funny story - I grew up with this kid in a small town in CA, then years later we both happened to wind up working at a Target in Tacoma WA at the same time). He said his dad told him that gallons of fuel would pour out on the ground through the airframe panels before they could get the plane in the air - his dad would come home reeking of JP7 even after several showers. Unfortunately, they supposedly put Cesium in the fuel to mask the exhaust signature, which likely contaminated the ground water around there. I still think its badass, though. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/38 "2011-09-14T01:21:10Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Maneuverability, perhaps. > > When I was very young B-58 Hustlers would fly over my Grandfather’s farm and return without the weapons pod. 🙂 The pod doubled as an external fuel tank, besides carrying the canned sunshine. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/39 "2011-09-14T01:23:33Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Ah, yes, the brilliant design team at Avro, who gave us [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_VZ-9_Avrocar), er, paragon of high performance aircraft. Well it was not supposed to be an aircraft, but a ground effect vehicle. Declan ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943/40 "2011-09-14T01:41:54Z")
Huh…I never knew Delta made fighter aircraft…unless its a different company. Does Delta make anything anymore, or are they strictly a carrier? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-jets-or-something/595943.md?page=3)