# Fighter pilots who re-united with opponents they shot down, years later **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 18, 2011, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017 "2011-10-18T06:17:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017/41 "2011-10-20T14:34:45Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Nice imagery, maybe, but I doubt that it’s true. Based just on things in this story. > > - radar (invented by the British) was pretty much more advanced on the Allied side than the Axis, all through the war. So if the German pilot was “testing a new radar”, it probable that the British bomber already had better radar installed. So the British plane would have seen him on radar as he approached, and certainly would not be surprised. > - at nighttime, how would the German pilot be able to see the expression on the British pilot’s face? Cockpits weren’t lit up at night – pilots went to some effort to avoid lights, to keep their night vision intact. (And to keep their bodies intact, by avoiding been lighted targets.) Adding to the responses above, its been a very long time since I read it so my recollection may not be entirely accurate. I believe I still have the book it was contained in but much of my book collection is still at my parents, I’ll check it out next time I’m over there. The German pilot may not have been using radar on his own craft but instead using a radar-tracking device _(or even instructions from the ground)_, I don’t know much about radar and counter-measures in WW2 to be honest. The British plane may not have seen him coming if he was being directed/travelling through cloud cover and on a moonlit night a surprising amount of detail can be discerned. I’ll try and find the account and check the details. ---
**Author:** ![kombatminipig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5ac83/32.png) [@kombatminipig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kombatminipig)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017/42 "2011-10-20T15:03:58Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > The German pilot may not have been using radar on his own craft but instead using a radar-tracking device _(or even instructions from the ground)_, I don’t know much about radar and counter-measures in WW2 to be honest. Possible. The Germans did learn how to track the H2S ground mapping radars, as well as the fact that they made use of their own ground radar to lead night fighters to targets. ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017/43 "2011-10-20T17:33:00Z")
Sorry I am late to the thread, and I haven’t the time to go through all of the responses, so my information might have been mentioned up thread. There are a few really good books that cover the op, if you get a chance I highly recommend you read them. They are: “Top Guns”, edited by Foss and Brennan has one such story by WWII P-38 ace John Lowell about an encounter with a German ME-109 pilot, as well as fascinating stories from many famous fighter pilots. Another great compilation of fighter pilot stories (both books are non-fiction, actual accounts) is “War in the Air”, by Koontz. Both books will point the reader to full autobiographies of many of these pilots which are also fascinating reading. Hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![Damfino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Damfino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damfino)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017/44 "2011-10-20T22:03:08Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > Adding to the responses above, its been a very long time since I read it so my recollection may not be entirely accurate. I believe I still have the book it was contained in but much of my book collection is still at my parents, I’ll check it out next time I’m over there. > > The German pilot may not have been using radar on his own craft but instead using a radar-tracking device _(or even instructions from the ground)_, I don’t know much about radar and counter-measures in WW2 to be honest. > > The British plane may not have seen him coming if he was being directed/travelling through cloud cover and on a moonlit night a surprising amount of detail can be discerned. > > I’ll try and find the account and check the details. Len Deighton’s _Bomber_, an extremely well researched novel, describes how German night fighters were directed onto British bombers by radar stations on the defence line. Edit: Sorry, missed **kombatminipig’s** post. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017/45 "2011-10-20T22:38:21Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The Germans were white North West Europeans. the Italians were also of European stock. the Japanese were yellow Japs. Its not surprising that the views were different. Japanese troops could expect to have their skulls sent as mementos to girlfriends or their arm bones being made into letter openers. Admittedly, there were exceptions. However, the Japanese were seen as somewhat less human. it’s not to say that the Japanese did not return the compliment. You misspelled “start that shit”. The Japanese have a great many ruthless and inhumane deeds to their account, not least the Bataan March and the Burma Railway (one dead slave for every sleeper laid, in the latter case). But they too could be chivalrous: after the sinking of the British ships _Prince of Wales_ and _Repulse_, a Japanese plane dropped funeral wreaths as a mark of respect to brave men sacrificed to the necessities of war. Concerning Galland and Bader, mentioned above, there’s a nice photo in _Reach for the Sky_ of Bader sitting in a 109; although what Bader could not see was that, outside the cockpit, Galland had a gun pointed at him in case he yielded to the impulse to fire that sucker up and make a run for home. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017/46 "2011-10-20T23:38:16Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Galland had a gun pointed at him in case he yielded to the impulse to fire that sucker up and make a run for home. 🙂 Can you start the engine of an ME 109 from the cockpit? ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017/47 "2011-10-21T00:27:54Z")
Something worth mentioning is that for a variety of reasons, aircrews, and fighter pilots in particular, seem much more inclined to be one step removed from the whole “killing other humans” experience. In many ways, you’re not trying to kill a guy, you are simply trying to destroy a machine. Of course, it might also just be an officer chivalry thing left over from the long-past traditions of knights and samurai or some such. As I recall, Hal Moore, an Army officer who commanded air cav troops in Vietnam, has had at least one fairly amicable meeting with the North Vietnamese commander that he previously fought in the Ia Drang Valley early in the war. Even in that case, the two officers, though both infantry commanders, did not fight each other personally, so that must have helped somewhat as well. EDIT: I bring this up as a contrast to the claim that it is simply because of race that people get along with each other to widely varying extents after the war. I’m sure you will find many white Christian Allied soldiers from WWII who had nothing nice to say about the Germans or Italians after the war, but those don’t make for good stories to publish in books later on. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017/48 "2011-10-21T01:04:32Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > I’m sure you will find many white Christian Allied soldiers from WWII who had nothing nice to say about the Germans or Italians after the war, but those don’t make for good stories to publish in books later on. One of my patrons at the Library told a story of coming upon another American patrol on a very cold night during the Battle of the Bulge. There were frozen German bodies about, and he couldn’t help giggling when he recounted how the leader of the other patrol invited them to, “Pull up a Kraut and sit down.” ---
**Author:** ![jayarrell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@jayarrell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayarrell)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017/49 "2011-10-21T01:14:04Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > I vaguely recall reading about one incident in the Second World War where a German fighter pilot escorted a heavily damaged allied bomber _(American I believe)_ from Germany into friendly airspace. > > Both pilots met up years later and discussed the incident. This sounds like the Charles Brown/Franz Stigler story: [Charlie Brown’s B17](http://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Charlie_Brown_and_Franz_Stigler_incident) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017/50 "2011-10-21T03:16:59Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Can you start the engine of an ME 109 from the cockpit? I don’t have time to look, but I think they were started by having a couple of ground crew cranking a dynamo via a crank on the starboard side. ---
**Author:** ![Mapache](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@Mapache](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mapache)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017/51 "2011-10-21T04:34:47Z")
I was at the Oskosh EAA flyin some years ago and had the honor of meeting Pappy Boyington, awarded the Medal of Honor as commander of the Black Sheep Squadron (Of TV fame,only they really existed) He had met and befriended tthe Japanese pilot who had shot down his P47, (at age nineteen!!) and the two of them had written a book together. They were sharing a booth, and the neatest part was the Boyington was wearing a tshirt silkstreened with a Zero and Rising Sun, and the Japanese had a P47 and a black sheep. ---
**Author:** ![kombatminipig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5ac83/32.png) [@kombatminipig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kombatminipig)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017/52 "2011-10-21T13:05:32Z")
> [@Damfino](#): > > Len Deighton’s _Bomber_, an extremely well researched novel, describes how German night fighters were directed onto British bombers by radar stations on the defence line. > > Edit: Sorry, missed **kombatminipig’s** post. A very good book indeed, realistic in everything except the date of the night during which it takes place 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017/53 "2011-10-21T13:10:19Z")
> [@kombatminipig](#): > > A very good book indeed, realistic in everything except the date of the night during which it takes place 🆒 I’ve read it four times, and stay up to the wee hours of the morning each time waiting to see the end of the raid. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017/54 "2011-10-21T16:54:47Z")
> [@Mapache](#): > > I was at the Oskosh EAA flyin some years ago and had the honor of meeting Pappy Boyington, awarded the Medal of Honor as commander of the Black Sheep Squadron (Of TV fame,only they really existed) He had met and befriended tthe Japanese pilot who had shot down his P47, (at age nineteen!!) and the two of them had written a book together. They were sharing a booth, and the neatest part was the Boyington was wearing a tshirt silkstreened with a Zero and Rising Sun, and the Japanese had a P47 and a black sheep. That is so cool you got to meet Boyington. And before you get ripped in here I will fix you post. You meant F4U Corsair, not P47 Thunderbolt. Cool Story Bro. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017/55 "2011-10-21T18:01:09Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I don’t have time to look, but I think they were started by having a couple of ground crew cranking a dynamo via a crank on the starboard side. Not a dynamo, a flywheel. Once up to speed, the pilot would clutch it in and the inertia would crank the engine. ---
**Author:** ![Damfino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Damfino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damfino)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017/56 "2011-10-21T22:39:04Z")
> [@kombatminipig](#): > > A very good book indeed, realistic in everything except the date of the night during which it takes place 🆒 “There was never a 31st June in 1943, or in any other year” or words to that effect. Reading that made me read the book. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017/57 "2011-10-22T11:00:10Z")
> [@obbn](#): > > That is so cool you got to meet Boyington. And before you get ripped in here I will fix you post. You meant F4U Corsair, not P47 Thunderbolt. Cool Story Bro. Maybe the shirt _did_ have a P-47, regardless of what the Black Sheep actually flew. You weren’t there. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017/58 "2011-10-22T14:46:11Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > Maybe the shirt _did_ have a P-47, regardless of what the Black Sheep actually flew. You weren’t there. 😃 They’ve [both](http://www.google.com/search?q=f-4u&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1366&bih=601) got that [big ass](http://www.google.com/search?q=p-47&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1366&bih=601) radial engine up front. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Reginald\_Hobbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@Reginald\_Hobbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reginald_Hobbes)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017/59 "2011-10-22T14:54:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I heard about this one years ago. Might be apocryphal, I’m not sure, but here goes: > > An American bomber pilot was being interviewed on French radio, on the anniversary of the end of the war. The interviewer asks him if he ever feels guilt over all the people he killed on his bombing raids. The pilot says no: it was war, he was doing his duty, etc. etc. Except for one time. > > They were on a raid into Germany when their bomber developed engine trouble and had to turn back. Worried that they might be too heavy to make it back, they dump their payload over the French countryside. Unfortunately, they don’t realize they’re flying over a farmhouse until it’s too late. The farm takes a direct hit, and is flattened. The pilot didn’t know if there was anyone in the farmhouse at the time, and had always felt bad about the incident. > > The interview concludes, and they open up the phone lines. And one of the callers is from the family that lived in the house at the time! They’d abandoned it to live with relatives further away from the fighting, and after the war, had returned home to find the area largely untouched by war - except for the string of bomb craters walking right through where their home used to be. From the timing, they figured it had to have been the Allies (Germany not having much of an air force left at this point), but could never figure out what had happened, until he heard the American pilot’s story. He told the pilot that his family didn’t hold a grudge over it, and thanked him for his efforts in freeing France from the Nazis. In _The Wild Blue_, former USAAF Lt George McGovern recounts an almost identical story. They were over Austria, returning to their Italian base, with one bomb still stuck in the bomb bay. Since it was too dangerous to land with a bomb, the crew was attempting to free it. When they did so, it hit the farmhouse as if it had been aimed. Twenty years later, Senator McGovern is interviewed on Austrian TV. After the broadcast, the farmer calls to let him know that the family survived, they hid in a ditch when they heard the plane approach. ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017/60 "2011-10-22T15:13:43Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > They’ve [both](http://www.google.com/search?q=f-4u&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1366&bih=601) got that [big ass](http://www.google.com/search?q=p-47&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1366&bih=601) radial engine up front. 🙂 Yeah, but one got dropped and bent its wings! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighter-pilots-who-re-united-with-opponents-they-shot-down-years-later/600017.md?page=4)