# Fighting a bear... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 9, 2005, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083 "2005-02-09T00:01:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Scarface\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Scarface\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarface_Z)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083/21 "2005-02-09T02:04:05Z")
Hasn’t anyone read _Lord of the Flies_? Geez, i have spent plenty of time out in the wilderness, I’ve just never been to Canada. Nor have I ever actually encountered a bear. My experience has mostly been in the mid-atlantic area (appalachian mountains and the like) though I did go on a trip through Minnesota. I do have plenty of experience in preventing bear problems (bagging and hanging food for example) I can’t believe i have to defend my scoutliness simply because I’ve never tangled with a bear before and wanted to know some stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083/22 "2005-02-09T02:08:04Z")
> [@Mr. Duality](#): > > I once knew a guy who actually got **between** a mama bear and her cub. He had the claw-scars to prove it; he said he and the mama played “tag” for a while, circling and dodging around a tree. Scratches or _scars_? Bears, especially black bears, have short, thick, blunt claws that are well-suited for climbing, but not good for slashing. Unlike big cats, bears are not primarily predators, and when they do hunt their takedown is more of a, well, a bear-hug and bite than a slash. I had a bear standing above me with her paw on my shoulderblade. She weighed a ton (well, as it turned out, about 200 pounds) and was breathing in my ear. I never felt any claws. A terminal case of halitosis, but no claws. In the case of your friend, it sounds like the bear was more nervous than he was. Despite their bulk and intimidating presence, black bears are generally fearful unless they’ve become socialized to people, in which case they become more of a nuisance than a threat. My bear was intimidated enough by me in my 5’10" pale-skinned glory to let go of a pack of food and trundle off in search of an easier meal. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083/23 "2005-02-09T02:12:12Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > … > > Uh? I have no clue what this means. > > Stranger I’m amazed at the number of people in this thread that don’t get the reference to [Lord of the Flies](http://www.gerenser.com/lotf/) by William Golding. Published in 1954 it has been assigned in high school English classes across the US ever since. It has been [filmed at least twice](http://www.imdb.com/find?q=%22Lord%20of%20the%20Flies%22;tt=on;mx=20) and [spoofed in a Simpsons episode.](http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/simpsons/episodeguide/season9/page14.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083/24 "2005-02-09T02:18:11Z")
> [@Scarface Z](#): > > I can’t believe i have to defend my scoutliness simply because I’ve never tangled with a bear before and wanted to know some stuff. Sorry if that came off too snarky or critical; it’s just that some of the things you mentioned (using a gun for signaling or hunting food) just aren’t all that practical, be it the Appalachians or Canada. The weight budget is better spent on stuff like matches, extra clothing, food, and so forth. People get lost or die in the the backcountry because they don’t have or can’t read maps, don’t check or plan for conditions, can’t light a fire or cook dinner in the rain, can’t deal with hypothermia, et cetera. Very, very few are victim of wildlife attacks, and most of those are either instigated by the party in question or completely unavoidable. Read up on bears. The Rogers website is a good start. And, again, I’d canisterize the food rather than hang. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083/25 "2005-02-09T03:23:43Z")
> [@Laughing Lagomorph](#): > > I’m amazed at the number of people in this thread that don’t get the reference to > [Lord of the Flies](http://www.gerenser.com/lotf/) by William Golding. Published in 1954 it has been assigned in high school English classes across the US ever since. 'Kay. I read it waybackwhen (must have been 10 or 11, and they never assigned it to us as reading in high school) and honestly, it didn’t make all that much of an impression on me. I mostly remember the kid with the glasses and the whole civilized vs. savages theme, but actual quotes were left on the trail long back there. I was more into Vonnegut at the time. “So it goes.” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![jester21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed655f/32.png) [@jester21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jester21)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083/26 "2005-02-09T03:27:45Z")
Comeon! … this is Canada we are talking about. (or A-boot as it may be) … You only need Labatt Blue to pacify the bears 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083/27 "2005-02-09T03:38:34Z")
All right, all those replies and no one has said it. As many of those have said, black bears are not a real problem, it’s the grizzlies that are dangerous. It is recommended in bear country that you carry pepper spray to ward of any aggressive bears. You should also wear bells as a noisemaking device to alert bears to your presence so as not to surprise them prompting a defensive attack. You can tell the difference between black bears and grizzlies by examining their scat (droppings). Black bear scat has seeds in it and smells like berries. Grizzly bear scat has bells in it and smells like pepper. ---
**Author:** ![jester21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed655f/32.png) [@jester21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jester21)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083/28 "2005-02-09T03:42:12Z")
> [@Bill Door](#): > > All right, all those replies and no one has said it. > > As many of those have said, black bears are not a real problem, it’s the grizzlies that are dangerous. It is recommended in bear country that you carry pepper spray to ward of any aggressive bears. You should also wear bells as a noisemaking device to alert bears to your presence so as not to surprise them prompting a defensive attack. > > You can tell the difference between black bears and grizzlies by examining their scat (droppings). Black bear scat has seeds in it and smells like berries. Grizzly bear scat has bells in it and smells like pepper. Bells and berries?? TMI dude. besides… why do Grizzlies eat bells? they are shiny and make noise… but not very tasty. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083/29 "2005-02-09T03:45:45Z")
> [@jester21](#): > > Bells and berries?? TMI dude. > > besides… why do Grizzlies eat bells? they are shiny and make noise… but not very tasty. 😛 Dude, one of us has been whooshed. If I have to explain it, it wasn’t very funny to begin with. Mea culpa. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083/30 "2005-02-09T03:48:13Z")
I highly recommend reading the book _Mark of the Grizzly_. Each chapter details a different bear encounter where people reacted differently, ranging from pepper spray to guns to playing dead. The author doesn’t preach any particular method, he just gives lots and lots of facts. All of the incidents were taken from U.S. and Canadian National Parks. I do _not_ recommend reading the book at night in a campground in Banff. I didn’t sleep too well 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jester21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed655f/32.png) [@jester21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jester21)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083/31 "2005-02-09T04:05:13Z")
> [@Bill Door](#): > > Dude, one of us has been whooshed. If I have to explain it, it wasn’t very funny to begin with. Mea culpa. oh… i didn’t read the whole post… i’ve been drinking… Bear-Bait in other words 😃 (unless it’s Labatt Blue, in which case, i always leave an “offering”) ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083/32 "2005-02-09T04:34:59Z")
> [@Bill Door](#): > > Dude, one of us has been whooshed. If I have to explain it, it wasn’t very funny to begin with. Mea culpa. I thought it was pretty funny. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083/33 "2005-02-09T04:44:28Z")
Yes, you can bring in most types of hunting rifles and shotguns into Canada for protection from animals in the wilderness provided you take care of the proper paperwork for importation, transportation and licensing [http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/info\_for-renseignement/factsheets/visitin\_e.asp](http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/info_for-renseignement/factsheets/visitin_e.asp) . In fact, hunting, including bear hunting, draws a lot of American visitors to Canada. As far as carrying a restricted handgun or some sort of prohibited weapon (automatics, bazookas, Howitzers, A-bombs, etc) for personal protection against bears, you will not be allowed to bring one over the border or to carry one in Canada. (Before someone starts nitpicking, yes, a handgun can be brought in and transported if it is for a target competition). As far as black bears go, there is no need for a gun for protection. Black bear attacks are extremely rare (only about 40 in the last century in all of North America [http://bears.mnr.gov.on.ca/gen\_recognize.html](http://bears.mnr.gov.on.ca/gen_recognize.html) – mostly rogue bears), whereas gun accidents are not nearly as rare, so if you are serious about keeping safe, leave your gun at home. Similarly, if you want to avoid needless weight when hiking or portaging, leave the gun at home, and if you want to avoid ugly American comments, leave the gun at home unless it is hunting season. If you do have a close encounter with a black bear (I’ve had lots [http://my.tbaytel.net/culpeper/LowerJamesBayPicsMooseRiver.html](http://my.tbaytel.net/culpeper/LowerJamesBayPicsMooseRiver.html) ), just back away in a direction that does not block its avenue of escape. If you are in your tent at the time, just tell it to fuck off. If it hangs about, once it is gone you should try to figure out why it found your site so interesting, and correct your practices. Obviously keep your camp and gear spotless, do any gutting or food prep well away from where you tent and gear is, and hang your packs. There are areas of Canada where different types of bears hunt people (e.g. polar bears along the arctic ocean), or defensively attack people (griz in the west), in which case the preferred gun is a honking big shotgun loaded with slugs, along with other forms of protection for advanced warning and deterrence. Have fun with your trip, and be sure to post a trip report for us! ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083/34 "2005-02-09T04:58:58Z")
I’ve had encounters with black bears and grizzly bears. Black bears are more scared of you than you are of them, with respect to two exceptions: - You come up on a mother and cubs unexpectedly and startle them. In very, very rare circumstances this is the fault of the bear. In all other circumstances, it is the fault of the humans. After all, we humans are encroaching in their territory. - You encounter a desensitized black bear. A desensitized bear is one that is no longer afraid of humans. This has a high potential of ultimately being a bad scene for the bear. This is because the bear is later most often destroyed because previous humans broke the code of the wilderness too many times. The bear suffers because the humans it previously encountered created too many mistakes. Grizzlies are on a different planet from black bears. Really wild grizzlies don’t scare easily compared to black bears. However, make the usual human noises and smells should cause them to move away from you long before you arrive at/near where they once were. More often than not, you will never know they were there, are probably watching you from their safe difference. However, a grizz will stand its ground more often than black bears, in my experience. If that happens, you pulled the short straw. And if it’s a sow grizz with cubs, this is where clean underwear and a will back in your lawyer’s office are good things. A desensitized grizz is really bad news. You will not win. The bear will not win. Wilderness loses on all counts. I worked a summer with a lady who was mauled by a grizz (sow with cubs) and survived. It was in Yellowstone. The date and location shall remain unanswered. She survived and later went on to become a really good ranger, where we met and eventually worked together in the Yellowstone backcountry. It is a pretty amazing story she told, complete with modeling her scars in her tank top and short shorts, one night after work. All in all, I’ll take an encounter with a black bear or a grizz over a mountain lion any day. But that’s another story. > [@Scarface Z](#): > > Besides, i always like to bring some sort of firearm when I’m on foot that far away from help. Guns can also come in handy if someone (or everyone) gets lost. What with the ability to fire signal shots and kill our own food in event of desperation. we eagle scouts are always prepared. I hope you meant this in jest because you never would have made it through my scout troop with that type of opinion. This is GQ so I’ll just leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083/35 "2005-02-09T04:59:46Z")
[QUOTE=Scarface Z] geese, mooses, and bears, oh my! [QUOTE] Here are some Words of Wisdom [TM] to live by. Geese: When a goose attacks your girlfriend in the front of the canoe, do not laugh unless you want to deal with a pissed off goose and a pissed off girlfriend at the same time. Moose: According to Ed S., a male moose can swim as fast a two strong paddlers in a canoe, and can swim for a very long way, so don’t get too good a moose calling. Black bears: When the local kids are chasing the bears, get off the island as soon as you can. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083/36 "2005-02-09T05:41:51Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > I hope you meant this in jest because you never would have made it through my scout troop with that type of opinion. This is GQ so I’ll just leave it at that. On Franklin’s first land expedition, Michel shot Mr. Hood (of Hood River fame) when the canibalism came to light, but I don’t know if Michel shot his meals or if they were already dead. [http://www.cronab.demon.co.uk/frank.htm](http://www.cronab.demon.co.uk/frank.htm) More to the point, in case of lost food, a gun makes for a very poor tool with which to catch fish, which are plentiful in shield country. Similarly, whistles (particularly Fox-40 types), are far more effective for communication during small area search and rescue than a single gun. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083/37 "2005-02-09T06:21:44Z")
> [@Hunter Hawk](#): > > Hmm. So can you bring plate armor and a halberd? Stolhquist used to make a nice armor plated PFD (the Hairfish), but I don’t think they produce it anymore. In any event, there is no reciprocity for Canadian and American PFDs, so although the odds are extremely slim that you will every be called on it (I’ve been using a Stolhquist rescue PFD for a couple of decades without a problem), technically an American PFD will not count as part of the required equipment for a canoe. (We are too small a market for most American PFD manufacturers to bother jumping through the hoops to get Canadian DOT approval.) As far as halberds go, I’ll have to get back to you on that one. Would a kevlar kayak paddle cut it? Canoe and kayak jousting – just part of growing up Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083/38 "2005-02-09T13:33:55Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > 'Kay. I read it waybackwhen (must have been 10 or 11, and they never assigned it to us as reading in high school) and honestly, it didn’t make all that much of an impression on me. I mostly remember the kid with the glasses and the whole civilized vs. savages theme, but actual quotes were left on the trail long back there. I was more into Vonnegut at the time. “So it goes.” > > Stranger Well, I was more into Tolkien at the time than either Golding or Vonnegut, but I still remember the names of major characters, themes and symbols in all those books I haven’t picked up since 1982. I think they are going to be with me for a long, long time. BTW I hear Billy Pilgrim has come unstuck in time. ---
**Author:** ![BF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5ac83/32.png) [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083/39 "2005-02-09T13:58:52Z")
I’d recommend the [Alaskan Co-Pilot](http://www.wildwestguns.com/CoPilot_And_Guide_Rifles/body_copilot_and_guide_rifles.html) or the less expensive [Winchester](http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=534&type_id=105&cat=003C). Here’s the [Canadian website](http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/info_for-renseignement/factsheets/visitin_e.asp) that details what you must do in order to bring in a non-restricted firearm, of which the two I linked above are included. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083/40 "2005-02-09T14:47:34Z")
For emergency food, a far better bet than a gun and ammo is a couple fishhooks and some line (plus the aforementioned edible plants guide). Or better yet, an extra day or two of dried food. Really, you won’t need it unless you’re lost for more than a week anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-bear/289083.md?page=3)