# Fighting a ticket about holding a cell phone **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 11, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844 "2010-06-11T20:55:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844/121 "2013-08-10T05:33:38Z")
I went on a lot of ride alongs, with my cop neighbor. The irony is, before a cop pulls you over, for any reason, including talking on or holding a wireless cell, the cop uses his shoulder mounted, or hard wired hand held radio to run a 10-28 on your plates. Even in a high speed pursuit, cops are driving with one hand on the wheel, the other hand calling in coordinates to dispatch. A clever person could use this in court. How is a cop any less dangerous holding a radio trans / recvr, than a civilian at a stop light? ESP in a high speed pursuit, while executing a pit manuever Just ask the cop if he ran a 28 on you (guarantee he did) the ask him how he was able to do so. Key point…there are no exceptions on this law, as written. ---
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844/122 "2013-08-10T05:44:34Z")
Even worse, the police now have laptops mounted on the center armrest. Dispatch keys in info on a call, and the cop is actually reading the laptop while driving / responding. And if it’s an urgent call, they are driving like bats outta hell while reading the laptop. ---
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844/123 "2013-08-10T05:50:19Z")
Actually, the procedure for a cop to pull over a person talking or holding a cell, is to radio in your plates, year and make and color of car, occupied x times, location and reason. Then dispatch emails back the 10-28 ( your bio ) to his laptop, that he then reads…all while driving. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Blaylock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_blaylock/32/3235_2.png) [@Bob\_Blaylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Blaylock)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844/124 "2013-08-10T20:19:11Z")
I don’t know how much bearing this has on the law, but as a matter of common sense, I am very strongly of the opinion that when any motor vehicle of any kind is either in motion, or in a state that it reasonably could go into motion, that there needs to be a driver at the controls whose attention is on the safe operation of that vehicle, and on the conditions around that vehicle, and not on his cell phone. Even stopped at a red light, the light could change at any moment, and the driver needs to be paying attention to that. I have no sympathy at all for the OP, and I hope he has to pay the full fine. Maybe next time, he’ll pay attention to his driving, instead of to his phone. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844/125 "2013-08-10T20:37:28Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > I went on a lot of ride alongs, with my cop neighbor. The irony is, before a cop pulls you over, for any reason, including talking on or holding a wireless cell, the cop uses his shoulder mounted, or hard wired hand held radio to run a 10-28 on your plates. > Even in a high speed pursuit, cops are driving with one hand on the wheel, the other hand calling in coordinates to dispatch. > A clever person could use this in court. A clever person would realize that this has probably been tried a thousand times before. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844/126 "2013-08-10T22:01:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > A clever person would realize that this has probably been tried a thousand times before. I dunno. I’d like to see this line of logic applied to other criminal situations. “Sure, I kidnapped that woman and held her against her will - but is that really any different than what the cops did when they arrested me?” ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844/127 "2013-08-10T23:37:07Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > A clever person could use this in court. Yes, the classic “no u” defense, always guaranteed to work. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844/128 "2013-08-11T17:36:01Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I dunno. I’d like to see this line of logic applied to other criminal situations. “Sure, I kidnapped that woman and held her against her will - but is that really any different than what the cops did when they arrested me?” That’s not a proper analogy. In the example given, the officer is using a communication device while driving. If he kidnapped someone and forced them to give out a ticket that would be a proper analogy. A regular occurrence in my area are police officers running stop signs and stop lights without a care in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844/129 "2013-08-12T01:26:39Z")
The real question is: how did **Muffin** manage to post (excessively) before his/her join date? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844/130 "2013-08-12T01:38:46Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > The real question is: how did **Muffin** manage to post (excessively) before his/her join date? SDMB is having server errors. Server errors tend to cause things like that. Just remember, computers have all the intelligence of warm apple pie, and can’t be expected to notice what you notice. Try refreshing and see if it goes away. ---
**Author:** ![Pixel\_Dent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Pixel\_Dent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixel_Dent)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844/131 "2013-08-12T18:55:28Z")
I know this thread is a semi-zombie, but I’m curious how this sort of thing is being handled in the modern smart phone world. I know more than a few people who mount their phone on the dash to use as a gps while driving. How do you tell the difference between a Garmin GPS and a Samsung Galaxy that’s mounted on the dash when the car is driving by you? ---
**Author:** ![Martiju](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@Martiju](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martiju)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844/132 "2013-08-13T12:33:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That’s not a proper analogy. In the example given, the officer is using a communication device while driving. If he kidnapped someone and forced them to give out a ticket that would be a proper analogy. > > A regular occurrence in my area are police officers running stop signs and stop lights without a care in the world. Or, remarkably, we give some people particular powers and leeway, to act outside of the law that applies to others precisely so that they can carry out their duties. For example, I’m not allowed to drive at over 70mph anywhere, or 30mph in towns and cities. Police, Fire and Ambulance services regularly exceed these limits, sometimes quite dramatically but for some unknown reason they are not stopped, fined or disqualified. I wonder why. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844/133 "2013-08-13T15:45:32Z")
> [@Martiju](#): > > Or, remarkably, we give some people particular powers and leeway, to act outside of the law that applies to others precisely so that they can carry out their duties. For example, I’m not allowed to drive at over 70mph anywhere, or 30mph in towns and cities. Police, Fire and Ambulance services regularly exceed these limits, sometimes quite dramatically but for some unknown reason they are not stopped, fined or disqualified. I wonder why. Not remarkably, that doesn’t apply to non-emergency events yet it’s done everyday. Maybe you’ll be lucky and not broadsided by a member of one of these agencies. Maybe not. I recently had an officer run a stop sign right in front of my house and it was sheer luck on my part that I had slowed down enough to avoid it. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844/134 "2013-08-13T16:27:52Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > The real question is: how did **Muffin** manage to post (excessively) before his/her join date? What, you’re from the UK but don’t know what a Time Lord is? > [@Pixel\_Dent](#): > > I know this thread is a semi-zombie, but I’m curious how this sort of thing is being handled in the modern smart phone world. I know more than a few people who mount their phone on the dash to use as a gps while driving. How do you tell the difference between a Garmin GPS and a Samsung Galaxy that’s mounted on the dash when the car is driving by you? In the jurisdiction being discussed, an otherwise hand-held cell phone or an otherwise hand-held GPS must not be operated while being held in the driver’s hand while he or she is driving. Either can be used legally by the driver while driving if it is mounted to the vehicle and only used with voice commands other than to simply turn it on or off. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844/135 "2013-08-13T16:36:15Z")
BTW, in the jurisdiction being discussed, the same law applies to hand-held MP3 players. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844/136 "2013-08-13T17:21:35Z")
I get the whole argument that it’s different than using a phone. If I were you I would just go ahead and pay it, I don’t think there is a good chance that the judge will go along with that however because then everyone caught with a cell phone could claim they were “only looking”. So many people try to get away with it, that if you need to do anything including just looking at a phone, its better to wait to pull over somewhere safe and park, before doing so. In 2007 I narrowly escaped being seriously hurt or killed in a bad accident that crumpled up the hood of my car like an accordion, because I decided to take a quick peek at my phone. Lesson learned. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844/137 "2013-09-28T09:52:21Z")
> [@Galileo](#): > > Recently, I received a ticket for violating [Section 78.1 of the Ontario Highway Act](http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#BK139), > . . . > I told him that my car has built-in Bluetooth and that all I was doing was checking the signal strength. He said that I violated the law because I was holding a hand-held wireless device, and he gave me a ticket. > . . . > So what did I do wrong? > . . . > [@Galileo](#): > > But, I’m wondering about something that might cause me to just pay the fine and be done with it. How about certain loss in accordance with two decisions released by the Ontario Court of Appeal yesterday? [R. v. Kazemi, 2013 ONCA 585](http://www.ontariocourts.ca/decisions/2013/2013ONCA0585.htm) > [@](#): > > [14] Road safety is best ensured by a complete prohibition on having a cell phone in one’s hand at all while driving. A complete prohibition also best focuses a driver’s undivided attention on driving. It eliminates any risk of the driver being distracted by the information on the cell phone. It removes any temptation to use the cell phone while driving. And it prevents any possibility of the cell phone physically interfering with the driver’s ability to drive. In short, it removes the various ways that road safety and driver attention can be harmed if a driver has a cell phone in his or her hand while driving. > > [15] The interpretation of “holding” offered by the appeal judge requires that there be some sustained physical holding. Any holding for a shorter period of time, with the accompanying risks to road safety and driver attention, would be exempt from the prohibition. With respect, I do not think this accords with the ordinary meaning of the word. Nor does it properly reflect the object of the HTA or best achieve the legislature’s purpose in enacting the section. Moreover such an interpretation would leave the uncertainty of how long the physical holding must be sustained to be caught by the provision. It would create the enforcement challenge of requiring continued observation of the driver for that period of time if the prohibition is to be effective. [R. v. Pizzurro, 2013 ONCA 584](http://www.ontariocourts.ca/decisions/2013/2013ONCA0584.htm) > [@](#): > > Road safety and driver attentiveness to driving are best achieved by entirely prohibiting a driver from holding or using a cell phone while driving. To hold out the possibility that the driver may escape the prohibition because the cell phone is not shown to be capable of communicating, however temporarily, is to tempt the driver to a course of conduct that risks undermining these objectives. Are you still waiting for your case to be heard, or is it already completed, and if so, what was the result? ---
**Author:** ![CominAfterYa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9c0ed/32.png) [@CominAfterYa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CominAfterYa)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844/138 "2014-05-26T17:42:22Z")
Last night I drove through a safety check point. It was a holiday weekend (memorial day) and they were looking for drunk drivers. The check point I believe had a officer that was a head of the check point and that 1st officer was telling the check point whom to pull over if I was to guess. I get pulled over thinking I have no worries. I had insurance, license, not been drinking and so on. They tell me that I had been using a cell phone while driving. I have a blue tooth in my car and my 6 year old son in the back seat. My son was talking to his mommy in the back seat and once he hung up the phone he said “daddy here is your phone.” I take my phone and threw it on my passenger seat. Did I really break the law here. I didnt take 1 second off the road! I was looking at the road and took my hand while paying attention to the road and put my hand toward him and he laid the phone on my hand and then I threw it to the passenger seat as mentioned. First of all I am almost 100% positive that they cannot prove a thing and when they pulled me over and said that I was on the phone that I grabbed my blue tooth and showed them it and said why would I be using the phone. My ticket even says on it “driver has hands free devise, but was holding his phone.” It was dark and I am almost certain that they had me pulled over because they could see the cell phone light up the car and that is it. Whats your opinions here. Thanks for your time. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844/140 "2014-06-18T21:03:34Z")
Quadruple Zombie threads don’t use cell phones Pretty sure the OP isn’t coming back to congratulate you. Also your case is very different than the OP’s in that in Toronto, it is illegal to even hold a cell phone while driving. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-a-ticket-about-holding-a-cell-phone/542844.md?page=6)