# fighting ignorance? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [March 13, 2006, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177 "2006-03-13T15:58:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![screwball321](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@screwball321](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/screwball321)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177/1 "2006-03-13T15:58:17Z")
i have read a couple of your articles and they are pretty dumb,i recently read the one about uri geller. lets look at this from my point of view: you discredit a person on something that they do when it is not proven to be real or fake by using information from some one who is a fake (a magician) that seems kind of 'IGNORANT" look even if this guy is fake what does he stand to gain from this? he does this for FREE he will always have people who do belive him and dont believe him so why would he do it for free? i mean come on man dont tell me that you think life is simple and meaningless and anyone who believes something against the grain is ignorant that in itself is ignorant. i dont know if he really can do it or not i just take it as is, there is alot more evidnce leaning in uri geller’s direction. scientists have done many studies on this guy and it has totaly changed the way some scientists look at human evolution and they are studies at credited places not some hole in the wall or warehouse in the woods. most of all if he makes one person, just one person truthfully believe that there is more to life that meets the eye then he did something that not many people can/try to do these days. so i would at least give him some credit for NEVER being proven a fake nor being proven as the real deal. btw, those books are no real HARD proof that he is fake i have read them. the only thing that i can really say is that if he is a fake than he is the best fake and i think even you can a agree with that. but like i said why would he do it for people for free without millions of cameras and a giant stage it just doent make sense to spend all that time learning how to fake such things and not get paid like david copperfield and that one guy who does the sidewalk magic stuff. the only thing he gets paid for is his seminars on mental health and healing, and stuff like that. oh, and his books. p.s. you should change your website slogan to fighting ignorace with ignorance since 1973 LOL! fire away! ---
**Author:** ![Operation\_Ripper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177/2 "2006-03-13T16:07:27Z")
Do you believe in unicorns as well? ---
**Author:** ![dogbutler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogbutler/32/428_2.png) [@dogbutler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dogbutler)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177/3 "2006-03-13T16:18:30Z")
> [@screwball321](#): > > even if this guy is fake what does he stand to gain from this? > [@screwball321](#): > > he only thing he gets paid for is his seminars on mental health and healing, and stuff like that. oh, and his books. I think you just answered your own question. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177/4 "2006-03-13T16:31:24Z")
> [@screwball321](#): > > fire away! Well, your composition skills could use some improvement. ---
**Author:** ![screwball321](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@screwball321](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/screwball321)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177/5 "2006-03-13T17:00:24Z")
> [@dogbutler](#): > > I think you just answered your own question. no i didnt, i stated that he only made money off seminars and books not from magic shows and bending spoons for people. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177/6 "2006-03-13T17:09:07Z")
> [@screwball321](#): > > no i didnt, i stated that he only made money off seminars and books not from magic shows and bending spoons for people. Television stations don’t make money from broadcasting programs. They make money by broadcasting advertising. They only use the shows to draw in viewers. Similarly, demonstrations of “magic” and spoon-bending serve to draw people in, the first step in getting them to buy seminar tickets and books and whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![screwball321](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@screwball321](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/screwball321)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177/7 "2006-03-13T17:10:57Z")
> [@Operation Ripper](#): > > Do you believe in unicorns as well? LOL! i always liked these kind of replies! well its not really a reply, but no i dont believe in unicorns. i just believe that maybe he isnt a fake, but i couldnt preach that to you now could i. ---
**Author:** ![screwball321](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@screwball321](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/screwball321)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177/8 "2006-03-13T17:22:39Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Television stations don’t make money from broadcasting programs. They make money by broadcasting advertising. They only use the shows to draw in viewers. > > Similarly, demonstrations of “magic” and spoon-bending serve to draw people in, the first step in getting them to buy seminar tickets and books and whatnot. i can see where you are coming from. but, why do it only for a small gain? he is not filthy rich. that would be pointless in the eyes of a con-artist. the books that tried to prove him a fake sold more copies than his own. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177/9 "2006-03-13T17:31:43Z")
> [@screwball321](#): > > i can see where you are coming from. but, why do it only for a small gain? he is not filthy rich. that would be pointless in the eyes of a con-artist. the books that tried to prove him a fake sold more copies than his own. I’m pretty sure Geller isn’t on food stamps and I’ll bet he makes quite a comfortable living selling all the junk on his official website. ---
**Author:** ![screwball321](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@screwball321](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/screwball321)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177/10 "2006-03-13T17:36:04Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > I’m pretty sure Geller isn’t on food stamps and I’ll bet he makes quite a comfortable living selling all the junk on his official website. okay, but what makes you so sure that this makes him a fake? or were you just replying to what i said about him being paid for this? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177/11 "2006-03-13T17:54:09Z")
**screwball** , I could build the Great Wall of China three times over with all the ignorance you’ve stored up. This clearly isn’t your kind of board. May i suggest some alternatives? [Something Awful](http://www.somethingawful.com/) [Championism](http://championism.com/) [Fark](http://www.fark.com/) [General Mayhem](http://www.genmay.net) Have fun. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177/12 "2006-03-13T18:07:33Z")
> [@screwball321](#): > > okay, but what makes you so sure that this makes him a fake? or were you just replying to what i said about him being paid for this? [This thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=281305), in which I was an active participant, covers that ground quite thoroughly. Geller is first mentioned in post #28. That thread (as well as [the one that inspired it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=278533&page=1&pp=50)) helps clarify the attitudes of this board toward claims of the paranormal; namely that we have a small number of members who view them positively (while more often than not claiming they are only being open-minded) while a larger number (including myself) challenge and question the assumptions and tend to conclude that the claims are nonsense. If you read those threads, you’ll get an excellent sense of what response you can expect on this board if you plan to defend Uri Geller. ---
**Author:** ![eyesotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@eyesotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eyesotrope)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177/13 "2006-03-13T18:31:49Z")
Screwball. Quite apt. Unfortunately, there are more than 321 of you out there. One of the things that will always endear the SDMB to me is its power to attract the kooks. I love to read their wacky ramblings fraught with illogic and tortuous language and grammar. We have not seen him return, but the Castaneda freak in the “How Great Thou Art” thread was equally entertaining. Please, Screwball, don’t give up. I would love to hear more. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177/14 "2006-03-13T19:30:49Z")
\ Umm…Dude, there are these keys on your keyboard, see? They’re labelled Shift and they make capital letters. And using capital letters makes your messages easier to read, and you are much less likely to be blown off as a twit if we can at least read your stuff without having to fight to do so. A friendly little FYI here… ---
**Author:** ![screwball321](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@screwball321](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/screwball321)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177/15 "2006-03-13T20:49:19Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > [This thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=281305), in which I was an active participant, covers that ground quite thoroughly. Geller is first mentioned in post #28. That thread (as well as [the one that inspired it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=278533&page=1&pp=50)) helps clarify the attitudes of this board toward claims of the paranormal; namely that we have a small number of members who view them positively (while more often than not claiming they are only being open-minded) while a larger number (including myself) challenge and question the assumptions and tend to conclude that the claims are nonsense. If you read those threads, you’ll get an excellent sense of what response you can expect on this board if you plan to defend Uri Geller. what you guys say really doesnt bother me i find it interesting to see people bash somthing that they really dont understand but claim they do by saying it is false. i understand the fact that you and others here think that anything paranormal is fake. but what makes it fake? because someone told you it was? or you have not seen it yourself. i have a roomate who was born jewish and blieve’s in kabala and i have seem him do these same things that uri did and much much more. if you dont believe in the paranormal in any way than i am interested to hear what you think will happen to you when you die? ---
**Author:** ![Operation\_Ripper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177/16 "2006-03-13T20:55:06Z")
> [@screwball321](#): > > i have a roomate who was born jewish and blieve’s in kabala and i have seem him do these same things that uri did and much much more. No, you didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177/17 "2006-03-13T20:58:22Z")
Also I believe it’s “Kabbalah”, for future reference. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177/18 "2006-03-13T21:11:17Z")
> [@screwball321](#): > > i have read a couple of your articles and they are pretty dumb,i recently read the one about uri geller. lets look at this from my point of view: you discredit a person on something that they do when it is not proven to be real or fake by using information from some one who is a fake (a magician) that seems kind of 'IGNORANT" Only if you are unfamiliar with Occam’s Razor. Briefly, this principle of logic states that you never make an explanation more complicated than you have to. Randi can do the same things Geller does. Therefore, the simplest explanation is that Geller is also using stage magic. > [@](#): > > look even if this guy is fake what does he stand to gain from this? Money, fame. > [@](#): > > he does this for FREE he will always have people who do belive him and dont believe him so why would he do it for free? What exactly is it that you think Geller does for free? > [@](#): > > i mean come on man dont tell me that you think life is simple and meaningless and anyone who believes something against the grain is ignorant that in itself is ignorant. I assure you that **Cecil** believes no such thing. He simply demands that claims be proven by evidence. > [@](#): > > i dont know if he really can do it or not Considering that a stage magician can do all the same tricks that Geller can, logic tells us that Geller is a fraud. > [@](#): > > i just take it as is, there is alot more evidnce leaning in uri geller’s direction. Show it to me. Provide links to websites that have this evidence. Give the titles and authors of books containing this evidence. > [@](#): > > scientists have done many studies on this guy and it has totaly changed the way some scientists look at human evolution Give me the name of the researchers, the name of the study, and when it was published. > [@](#): > > and they are studies at credited places not some hole in the wall or warehouse in the woods. Then, give me the names of these studies. So far, you have not proven that these studies exist, let alone that they were conducted properly or provide clear evidence in Geller’s favor. > [@](#): > > most of all if he makes one person, just one person truthfully believe that there is more to life that meets the eye then he did something that not many people can/try to do these days. Even if he makes people believe this by lying and passing of stage magic is psychic power? > [@](#): > > so i would at least give him some credit for NEVER being proven a fake nor being proven as the real deal. Why should I? He hasn’t been proven fake only because he refuses to allow Randi to test him. > [@](#): > > btw, those books are no real HARD proof that he is fake i have read them. Hard proof is impossible without Geller sitting down for proper tests. But, if Randi can do all the tricks that Geller can, how are Geller’s tricks proof of psychic power? > [@](#): > > the only thing that i can really say is that if he is a fake than he is the best fake and i think even you can a agree with that. Nope. I think Penn and Teller are much better fakes than Geller is. > [@](#): > > but like i said why would he do it for people for free without millions of cameras and a giant stage it just doent make sense to spend all that time learning how to fake such things and not get paid like david copperfield and that one guy who does the sidewalk magic stuff. the only thing he gets paid for is his seminars on mental health and healing, and stuff like that. oh, and his books. ---
**Author:** ![Operation\_Ripper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177/19 "2006-03-13T21:18:40Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > He hasn’t been proven fake only because he refuses to allow Randi to test him. Didn’t Randi bust him on The Tonight Show back in 70’s? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177/20 "2006-03-13T21:21:26Z")
[QUOTE=screwball321] what you guys say really doesnt bother me i find it interesting to see people bash somthing that they really dont understand but claim they do by saying it is false. [QUOTE] We _do_ understand Geller. He is a fraud. This doesn’t mean that all psychics are frauds. It just means that Geller is a fraud. > [@](#): > > i understand the fact that you and others here think that anything paranormal is fake. If I push a hundred reindeer off of a cliff, I haven’t proven that reindeer can’t fly. I’ve only proven that none of _those_ reindeer can fly. > [@](#): > > but what makes it fake? because someone told you it was? or you have not seen it yourself. Geller is a fake because any half-decent magician can do the same things Geller can. > [@](#): > > i have a roomate who was born jewish and blieve’s in kabala and i have seem him do these same things that uri did and much much more. Your roommate has no business delving into Kabbalah. Kabbalah is meant to be practiced only by Jewish men who are observant, learned in the Talmud, married and over forty. Study of Kabbalah by anybody else is a waste of time at best, and at worst (according to Jewish folklore) leads to insanity, death, or demons devouring your soul. Further, the purpose of Kabbalah is a true understanding of G-d. Any person who studies Kabbalah with the goal of telling the future, making a golem, or working other magic has missed the point. Those things are fringe benefits of Kabbalah. > [@](#): > > if you dont believe in the paranormal in any way than i am interested to hear what you think will happen to you when you die? That is not relevant to this thread. The existence or nonexistence of a deity, the human soul, or an afterlife has nothing to do with whether or not Uri Geller is a fraud. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-ignorance/348177.md?page=2)