# Fighting "Mark of the Beast" vaccine hesitancy **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [October 25, 2021, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-mark-of-the-beast-vaccine-hesitancy/953149 "2021-10-25T05:54:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-mark-of-the-beast-vaccine-hesitancy/953149/41 "2021-11-08T13:40:27Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Yep, and the OP just has to hope the landlady doesn’t immediately suss out that her tenant is being a disingenuous asshole about her core beliefs. Yeah. I think being honest and approaching the landlady from a position of respect is the best bet. And, as i suggested above, if her position on vaccines is coming from a trusted preacher, the OP’s odds of dissuading her are very low. Because she probably trusts her preacher more than she trusts the OP. But if it’s random Facebook posts, or similar, i think the odds are fairly good. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-mark-of-the-beast-vaccine-hesitancy/953149/42 "2021-11-08T15:22:18Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I understand that religion is sometimes used as a bludgeon to prevent adherents from questioning. But… So are other philosophies. And religion doesn’t have to be used that way, and often isn’t. “Often isn’t” is about as vague as you can get, wouldn’t you say? Do you mean a vast majority of the time, a slight majority of the time, about 50/50, or do you mean a minority of the time but noticeable? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-mark-of-the-beast-vaccine-hesitancy/953149/43 "2021-11-08T16:17:34Z")
Okay, in my experience, it’s uncommon for religion to be used as a bludgeon. I’m sure it varies by sect. But i have lots of religious friends and… few of any of them have been bludgeoned by their religion. I have friends in many Christian groups, friends who are practicing Orthodox Jews, friends who identify as Muslim who are quite rational. I don’t want to give overall numbers, because no doubt there’s bias on how i select my friends. But i think it’s crazy to assume that any religious person has parked their rational brain at the door, which seems to be the assumption of many in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-mark-of-the-beast-vaccine-hesitancy/953149/44 "2021-11-08T16:45:06Z")
Try to look at it this way-If 90% of albino Tasmanian devils have rabies, and 10% of domesticated dogs have rabies, which is the greater problem? When it comes to so-called “vaccine hesitancy” Christians _are_ the greater problem. I dare say that even if the vast majority of atheists were of that persuasion, Christians would still be the greater problem. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-mark-of-the-beast-vaccine-hesitancy/953149/45 "2021-11-08T16:58:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If 90% of albino Tasmanian devils have rabies, and 10% of domesticated dogs have rabies, which is the greater problem? Bad analogy. In that example, the domestic dogs are the greater problem, because they have far more contact with humans. I don’t think the radios are anything like 90% and 10%, though. I’m sure my sample is biased, but it’s not that biased. The raw vaccination numbers in the US demonstrate that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-mark-of-the-beast-vaccine-hesitancy/953149/46 "2021-11-08T17:08:37Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Bad analogy. In that example, the domestic dogs are the greater problem, because they have far more contact with humans. Damn good analogy, because even if every single albino Tasmanian devil was a domesticated pet, there are too few of them to make a measurable difference. The same with Christian anti-vaxxers vs, atheist anti-vaxxers, because even if _100%_ of atheists were anti-vaxxers, they still wouldn’t be the greater problem. They are a vast minority when it comes political leadership, media presence, and the population as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-mark-of-the-beast-vaccine-hesitancy/953149/47 "2021-11-08T17:40:36Z")
Yeah, I thought the analogy was pretty spot on. Anyway, when it comes to this particular landlady, she doesn’t even understand what her own religion says about the mark of the beast – why would logic persuade her that she’s wrong? On top of that, mark of the beast theology is pretty out there, even among Christians. I mean, this is demons walking among us, an anti-Christ coming down, end-times stuff. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-mark-of-the-beast-vaccine-hesitancy/953149/48 "2021-11-15T19:06:47Z")
I just posted this to Facebook with the idea of, instead of just arguing with religious nutters, I would just create my own Old Testament style history of the past 2 years, explaining that, perhaps, Trump and the anti-vax movement are not really on God’s side. > [@](#): > > This is a reading from the Book of COVID, Chapter 1. > > 1. For the People had become restless and demanded of THE LORD: > > 2. “We no longer need kings or priests to rule over us. We, The People, will select our own rulers. We will select Godly rulers, who rule by reason, responsibility, and morality guided by your Son’s principle of doing unto others as they would do unto themselves.” > > 3. And the LORD responded to the People: "You may select your own rulers, and as long as they are Godly rulers, guided by reason, responsibility, and morality guided by my Son’s principle of doing unto others, I will bless your Nation above all others. > > “Thus you have my Promise.” > > 1. And the Nation feared THE LORD, offering the proper sacrifices to Him while selecting Godly rulers. And the LORD was pleased, blessing this new Nation. > > 2. And by keeping with their word, the Nation grew ever more powerful, until it became the mightiest of Nations, developing weapons of fire and thunder which could destroy cities. > > 3. The Nation became wealthy beyond compare, more than the lands of Egypt, more than Babylon, more than all the empires of the Earth. > > 4. In this way, THE LORD blessed the Nation, for generations on end. And the Nation thanked the LORD, for generations on end. > > 5. But it came to pass that the praises for the LORD grew ever dimmer, the People turning away from the LORD and their agreement. So it was that in the Third Year of Trump that the LORD visited His great Nation. > > 6. And the LORD was angered by what he saw, saying to his angels: > > 7. “The People have lost their way. They have given control of nuclear fire to entertainers and money-changers, whoremongers and liars. Their sense of duty torn asunder, The People are lost in a marvel of entertainment, deflection, denial, and selfishness. The People are no longer selecting rulers who are guided by reason, responsibility, and the morality of my Son.” > > 8. Thus, the Lord removed his Promise from the Nation: > > 9. "You were to select rulers of reason, responsibility, and morality. But for two whole generations, you have selected leaders who were actors, CIA chiefs, whoremongers, drunkards, elitists, and con men. > > 10. “Let The People know that by this, they will know that I am the LORD: In the beginning of the Fourth Year of the Reign of Trump I will test The People by striking them with a plague of such vengeance that their lives will be shortened, their wealth diminishing, so that they may see the power of the LORD and repent.” > > 11. And the LORD smote the Nation with a great plague, hoping the People and their Rulers would come to reason, responsibility, and morality. > > 12. While hundreds of millions of The People accepted their responsibility towards others via the LORD’s gift of science and their following of the LORD’s sons rule to do unto others, the Ruler responded against the LORD and the Promise: > > “I take no Responsibility at All.” > > 1. His heart hardened, the LORD allowed the plague to continue, the nations great wealth and power diminishing, for the Ruler and his Followers were continuing to turn away from the LORD and their Promise. > > 2. Chastened, the vast majority of the People repented of their sins, saying “We, the People, have decided to rid ourselves of the Ruler, replacing him with a man trained in the ways of reason, responsibility, and the morality of Your Son.” > > 3. However, the Ruler continued to reject the Promise made unto the LORD by attempting to overthrow the great Nation. > > 4. But the will of The People thwarted him, and he was cast from power, the People’s will affirmed by the LORD, His Promise made to the Nation restored, a new ruler was installed, a man trained in the ways of reason, responsibility, and the morality of the LORD’s Son, even as flawed as the new Ruler… as all men… are. > > 5. And the LORD was pleased and allowed His heart to soften. And the LORD blessed the people with a vaccine saying > > 6. "I have blessed you with both a Universe which is knowable and the ability for you to have dominion over it. Because of this, developed through your science, you now have the miracle of the vaccine. > > “Take this, all of you, and inject of it. For this is my miracle, given up for you.” > > 1. And the majority of the Nation’s people rejoiced in the LORD, accepting the vaccine as soon as it was available. > > 2. But the Ruler and his Followers hearts remained hardened against the LORD, rejecting the LORD’s gift, speaking lies to the LORD and his gift. And his followers turned away from the LORD, saying the Ruler was the new God. > > 3. And the LORD’s heart hardened again, the LORD saying > > 4. “The nature of my gift is that the rejection of it means death, not ever-lasting life. The People who kept to their Promise will have my eternal favor. Those who continue to reject My word will not. Let the Ruler’s people deny my gift, by this they assure their own destruction.” > > This has been a reading from the Book of COVID. Oddly enough, I had people come in and immediately complain that God doesn’t selectively punish people like that, to which I retorted “Go watch _The Ten Commandments_ and let me know what you learn.” ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2021, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-mark-of-the-beast-vaccine-hesitancy/953149/49 "2021-11-26T14:03:46Z")
Just cleaning up my earlier post The Vaccine can not be the mark of the beast in and of itself, but can be related to it. I will address if the mark of the beast is a physical mark , including a microchip, or spiritual mark. Can the vaccine itself be the physical mark? The vaccine itself is a physical item, done physically to a physical body, however does not leave a physical mark. one might say a pin point mark at the injection site is left, but that heals over, this is not a mark, as it is not detectable - so not a physical mark. It is also not in the right hand nor the forehead so it simply can not be the mark of the beast if the mark is physical. If it were a microchip, there is simply no way for a chip to migrate to those positions, and no worldly reason to have such a chip do that migration. The mark of the beast, if related to the vaccine, must be a spiritual mark, thus it is not the vaccine itself, but the vaccine is only a physical indicator of the receiving the spiritual mark. The only option left is if the vaccine is related to a spiritual mark received. Let’s set the stage here, during the end times there are 2 identifications given to people, the seal of God (Rev 7:3) and the mark of the beast (Rev 13:18)t. The seal of God comes first, then the mark of the beast follows. This co-exists nicely with the vaccine was released voluntarily first, before mandates came into the picture. This also coexists nicely to the general principle that it is impossible to lose salvation once you have it, only loose reward. Those who are sealed by God are thus exempt from the mark and its consequences, but can enjoy the benefits. Let’s look at the spiritual reasons for getting the vaccine. The first reason I want to look for is care for others and society, not wanting to spread a deadly disease, and encouraging the most vulnerable to get it for their own good. These are the people who went first, they did it for the reason of love for others, even risking their own lives to do so on an experimental vaccine. There were no mandates, it was a free will decision. 'Love had no greater than one who lays one one’s life for another". If this is the motivation and if the vaccine is an end time spiritual identifier this would so much better fit the seal of God than the mark of the beast. This is true even if the vaccine is a total made up hoax, as God judges a person on their heart, and love never fails. Now let’s look at the mark of the beast, one must get to buy and sell. We see that in a form today with the vaccine mandates. But again the mark must be spiritual, not physical, so if the intent of getting the vaccine is to engage in commerce or to keep a job then that would fit. these are fear related. It is the intent behind it, not the act itself that God judges. Also note those who receive the vaccine before the mandates are exempt from the restrictions of the beast, they get to buy or sell or hold a job automatically as they have the physical vaccine. Looking forward, if mandates continue, which is a crap shoot - but possible, everyone would be forced to get it as the scriptures state, but the choice of why to get it would be on the individual, for the good of others or self serving things of this world. God does not like lukewarm and people in the end times will have to face the choice of God or not. So summing the vaccine can not be a physical mark of the beast, but can be related to it if the mark is spiritual. But like anything else God judges the heart of a person, and not the physical act, and once salvation is granted, it can not be lost and the mark is nothing to fear. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2021, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-mark-of-the-beast-vaccine-hesitancy/953149/50 "2021-12-21T14:55:50Z")
Adding to my above after finding this. A lot of such people like to say they want to see things for themselves, not take other’s words for it. In this pandemic they can certainly find things out for themself. What is true or not talking to trusted friends, nurses, visiting care centers, etc. One of the horsemen of the apocalypse in Revelation (and in 2 more OT books IIRC) (Death) is accompanied by Hades. This horseman is associated with plague. If we take COVID to be this horseman. We know the plague is real. Hades, who accompanies Death, is scripturally associated with Hell. Hades and Hell are used interchangeably in the Bible. Hell was a place prepared for the devil and his angels. The devil is the father of lies. So lies accompany the horseman we call Death and assist it’s work. So where are the lies with COVID? Before we assume, let’s look at the scriptures. These lies will help spread COVID (the work of the horsemen), to assist it’s ride of death by plague. Anyone who says the plague is not real, or not really bad (just a bad cold/flu) is denying the scriptural truth of reality, the horsemen. What ‘side’ is downplaying its severity? What (political) side is pulling us away from what the Lord instructed John to write to warn us about? Now we can find out the truth for ourselves, youtube and the like, and even so called experts are not finding out for oneself, but getting involved locally, seeing the suffering asking the questions and willingness to ask enough people and do the leg work for oneself is the way the truth can be verified. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2021, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-mark-of-the-beast-vaccine-hesitancy/953149/51 "2021-12-22T01:58:57Z")
I think I’ll just stick with the science of this matter. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-mark-of-the-beast-vaccine-hesitancy/953149/52 "2022-01-09T18:00:12Z")
The Bible was written at a time in history when people thought the earth was 10,000 years old and flat. It’s difficult to discuss it with someone who uses it as a foundation to foretell the future because it allows the backfill of a conclusion through interpretation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-mark-of-the-beast-vaccine-hesitancy/953149.md?page=2)