# Fighting misogyny - but "cunt" and "bitch" are still okay words **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 14, 2020, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769 "2020-05-14T04:16:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/21 "2020-05-14T18:08:11Z")
And if we are going to ban words denoting mythical half human female monsters, then Sphinx should be verboten too. Oh and mermaids. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/22 "2020-05-14T18:40:19Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > An entire handful? Wow. Big, if true. > > If this is really happening, report them and open a thread if there’s any uneven moderation to be discussed. The absence of this fact suggests this is just more imaginary conservative persecution. Here are a handful of posts by a certain poster I wont mention because its probably against the rules. Also, the posts have been shortened to only include the crazy. > [@](#): > > And yes, I do think that the vast majority of Republicans would love to go on a rampage of rape and murder. They’re modern Nazis, and would love to see most of the human race enslaved or killed and every woman reduced to a slave. > [@](#): > > American Right Wingers are used to constantly being pandered and catered to, to being allowed to ignore the rules and the law and trample all over everyone and everything. So they never really grow up and constantly demand instant satisfaction for their every whim, and throw tantrums if they don’t get it. And that’s what this is, a tantrum. > > They want the pandemic to be ignored and everything open again so they can do as they please regardless of the harm done, as always. The fact that doing so would kill plenty of them is beyond their ability to really understand since they’ve lived a life where everything is the fault of some evil liberal or woman or brown person. Nothing they do is ever wrong, nothing bad that happens to them is ever their fault. > [@](#): > > Ah, the tone argument; nonsense as always. People didn’t vote for Trump because the evil, evil “liberals” said mean things to them. They voted for Trump because they are sadists and bigots who wanted to hurt the rest of the world as much as possible because they can’t rape every woman or murder any black person they feel like anymore. They’ll vote for Trump because he’s hurting the world, which is exactly what they want; every random person who dies slowly because Trump gutted the Center for Disease Control is a victory for Trump and his followers. They want suffering and death, and that’s what he’s delivering. > > And they’ll never hear any criticism from the person you are complaining about or anyone else in the first place. They are too busy listening to the far right media bubble tell them how everyone else are satanists and child molesters and traitors. The problem for me with posts like these isnt that he calls out conservatives; its that he broad brushes, dehumanizes his opponents and hints at violence. If he had said “Conservative X has called for ignoring Coronavirus restrictions because he is selfish and paranoid and obviously doesnt care if thousands of people die.” would be fair game. Shoden trolled but never at this level or intensity. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/23 "2020-05-14T18:41:25Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > An entire handful? Wow. Big, if true. > > If this is really happening, report them and open a thread if there’s any uneven moderation to be discussed. The absence of this fact suggests this is just more **imaginary conservative persecution**. (bolding mine) This should be the new name for ATMB. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/24 "2020-05-14T19:57:52Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > And while “kike” and “nigger” are highly offensive in their own right for very good reasons, aren’t they qualitatively different from, “bitch” and “harpy”? And I’m not talking about a 1-10 scale on the insult-o-meter. Not being a female person, I’m relying on what women in my life have told me about the word “cunt”. Here’s what I said in the Pit thread I’ve cited in my OP: > [@Fuck You, Las Vegas Mayor Carolyn Goodman](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fuck-you-las-vegas-mayor-carolyn-goodman/852395/71): > > I think this is where we disagree. A man calling a woman a bitch or a cunt is expressing hatred, whether they mean to or not. That’s my understanding from talking to women who have discussed it with me - that extreme sexism bordering on hate is built into those terms, based on the way they have had those epithets thrown at them over their lives. So, just like I pay close attention when a non-white person tells me, a white person, that they’ve experienced discrimination, I pay close attention when women in my lives give this explanation about that particular word. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/25 "2020-05-14T19:58:58Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > And if we are going to ban words denoting mythical half human female monsters, then Sphinx should be verboten too. > Oh and mermaids. And what about sirens?!? Won’t someone think of the sirens! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/26 "2020-05-14T20:12:58Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > To be fair, women can be and often are guilty of this type of thing as well. I’ve heard my share of things like “dickhead”, “stupid prick”… I agree… > [@Jasmine](#): > > …“Cro-magnon”, “dumb bastard”, “Troglodyte”, etc, to describe men who have drawn our ire. They are sexist comments designed to assign men a lesser status on the evolutionary scale. …except I don’t think “Cro-Magnon” or “troglodyte” are gender specific. If we usually think of them as men, that’s our cultural conditioning at work rather than an actual specification of gender embedded in the words. (It took a mommy Cro-Magnon and a daddy Cro-Magnon who loved each other very much to make babby.) “Cunt” is harsh but I think the larger picture is that we use sex-related terms for all kinds of insulting expressions: cunt, dick, cocksucker, prick, and so on. If we wanted to avoid hypocrisy we could ban them all! ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/27 "2020-05-14T20:26:32Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > A clear set if rules will never exist for this board. A definitive list of words will never be generated. > > If these facts are simply too onerous for you then I am sorry but maybe this place isn’t right for you. How about a simple “Don’t insult people outside of the Pit. Regardless if they are public figures or members of this board or your own family”? Is the pull to insult people SO strong that it absolutely needs to be allowed in fora (forums? whatever) outside of the Pit? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/28 "2020-05-14T20:37:02Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How about a simple “Don’t insult people outside of the Pit. Regardless if they are public figures or members of this board or your own family”? > > Is the pull to insult people SO strong that it absolutely needs to be allowed in fora (forums? whatever) outside of the Pit? I can’t see that ever working, nor would I ever want to see that kind of limit on freedom of expression come to pass. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/29 "2020-05-14T20:40:44Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I can’t see that ever working, nor would I ever want to see that kind of limit on freedom of expression come to pass. You can’t see that working? It works for members of this board. Expanding it to include everyone is such an impossible task that you can’t EVER see it working? How about just in Great Debates? How hard would it be to refrain from insulting someone in just ONE forum? Think you can see THAT ever working? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/30 "2020-05-14T20:41:45Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > So can we use «harpy» in the Pit to describe a female public figure, without getting a warning or the ban-hammer? > > Misogynistic terms are okay, so long as you just use them in the Pit? There are no banned words. It’s all context dependent. You would have to ask Miller specifically about the Pit. Harpy isn’t a banned word. You used it and aren’t getting a warning. I just used it. Context matters. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/31 "2020-05-14T20:45:10Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > You can’t see that working? It works for members of this board. Expanding it to include everyone is such an impossible task that you can’t EVER see it working? > > How about just in Great Debates? How hard would it be to refrain from insulting someone in just ONE forum? Think you can see THAT ever working? Maybe I don’t understand what you mean. Are you saying I can’t call another poster an idiot outside the Pit, or I can’t call a public figure we happen to be discussing an idiot outside the pit? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/32 "2020-05-14T20:50:48Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Maybe I don’t understand what you mean. Are you saying I can’t call another poster an idiot outside the Pit, or I can’t call a public figure we happen to be discussing an idiot outside the pit? My suggestion was “no insults outside of the Pit” Apparently, that’s too onerous of a burden. So, I suggested what about just in Great Debates? No insults, regardless of who you are talking about. That’s what I mean. No “Trump the moron” or “Criminal Hillary” or “Harvard Harpy” or whatever in a Great Debate thread. That’s too difficult for this board? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/33 "2020-05-14T20:55:31Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > My suggestion was “no insults outside of the Pit” Apparently, that’s too onerous of a burden. > > So, I suggested what about just in Great Debates? No insults, regardless of who you are talking about. That’s what I mean. No “Trump the moron” or “Criminal Hillary” or “Harvard Harpy” or whatever in a Great Debate thread. That’s too difficult for this board? In my opinion, yes. And not because it _can’t_ be done on this board. But because it _shouldn’t_. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/34 "2020-05-14T20:59:44Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > There are no banned words. It’s all context dependent. You would have to ask Miller specifically about the Pit. > > Harpy isn’t a banned word. You used it and aren’t getting a warning. I just used it. Context matters. That’s why I put it in context: “So can we use «harpy» in the Pit to describe a female public figure, without getting a warning or the ban-hammer?” We apparently can use “cunt”, so why not “harpy”? And, if the argument is that there is harsh language in the Pit, so people who don’t want to see that language should avoid it, then the natural follow-up is: “Can we use the N word in the Pit to refer to a public figure? It’s harsh language, but if you’re upset by it, just avoid the Pit.” It should be clear that my concern is that the Board managment recognises that the Board has a misogyny issue, and says that they want to take steps to address that issue. However, the management does not appear to be willing to treat it as being on the same level as a racism issue. Extreme racist language, used to describe public figures, is considered hate speech even in the Pit. Extreme misogynist language is “context specific”. Or maybe, it’s a reluctance to recognise that there even is such a thing as extreme misogynist language, akin to extreme racist language. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/35 "2020-05-14T21:24:16Z")
To quote myself from another related thread: I would rather bear the responsibility for what I say, what words I use to say it, and in what context and what consequences it may carry, than be given an ever-expanding Index of Zero Tolerance words and phrases that will (a) encourage the more obnoxious to find ever more creative ways to dance at the edge of the line and give more ammunition to those who decry the injustice when one of them gets busted; and/or (b) burn those who may not mean ill but just momentarily lose composure in a moment of pique, and shut down any appeal in defense. That said people with the inclination to abuse will at some point provide enough rope to hang themselves, and it may be good to make it a shorter length thereof, thus speeding up the self-corrective effect, but still leaving some margin for discretion (of course, provided the Mods are on target) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/36 "2020-05-14T21:29:12Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > In my opinion, yes. And not because it _can’t_ be done on this board. But because it _shouldn’t_. Yes, I understand why you would say that. It would prevent you from calling Melania Trump a cunt outside of the Pit :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/37 "2020-05-14T21:32:38Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > In my opinion, yes. And not because it _can’t_ be done on this board. But because it _shouldn’t_. We disagree on this point. I think trying an insult free Great Debates would be a worthwhile experiment. Articulating arguments, rather than slinging mud, seems a very helpful progression to me. **Northern Piper** I understand what you’re saying, and I’ve struggled to come up with a response. On the one hand, the Pit is, by design, the Wild West. Overall, I like it. Good discussions are had in the Pit. It also permits posters to air grievances that don’t belong anywhere else on the Board. On the other hand, some language are out of bounds, even there. Hate speech, for example. Some words are clearly hate speech, such as the racial ones you’ve noted above. Terms that use aspects of LBTQI as an insult are right out. Once we start looking at words like bitch, cunt, or dick, then I think it’s dependent on context. There’s casual usage versus there’s directed misogyny. In the first case, I might call someone a motherfucker and it would be an expression of irritation. In another case, I might call someone a motherfucker and expect to get a beat down for disrespecting their family. For myself, I would be fine with “cunt” directed at me in the British usage, and I would be furious over the American one. Same word, but different meanings entirely. I don’t know how to find that line. I think this thread is a start. I also think that reporting things that are offensive can start to give the mods a sense of where the collective zeitgeist of the Board is at. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/38 "2020-05-14T22:23:01Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > And if we are going to ban words denoting mythical half human female monsters, then Sphinx should be verboten too. > Oh and mermaids. Hey, wait…mermaids are _sexy._ At least until they drag you down under the waves and drown your ass. [http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=123](http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=123) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/39 "2020-05-14T22:38:17Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > To quote myself from another related thread: > > I would rather bear the responsibility for what I say, what words I use to say it, and in what context and what consequences it may carry, than be given an ever-expanding Index of Zero Tolerance words and phrases that will (a) encourage the more obnoxious to find ever more creative ways to dance at the edge of the line and give more ammunition to those who decry the injustice when one of them gets busted; and/or (b) burn those who may not mean ill but just momentarily lose composure in a moment of pique, and shut down any appeal in defense. > > That said people with the inclination to abuse will at some point provide enough rope to hang themselves, and it may be good to make it a shorter length thereof, thus speeding up the self-corrective effect, but still leaving some margin for discretion (of course, provided the Mods are on target) I understand your point, but it seems to me that the mods do have a concept of an Index of Zero Tolerance words. That’s what I took from **Jonathan Chance** ’s warning to **Shodan** that triggered the banning: > [@Should Homeschooling be banned?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-homeschooling-be-banned/853721/78): > > **We’ve had the discussion about ‘harpy’ before, Shodan**. Let’s keep the sexism to a minimum, everybody. > > Warning issued. Sounds to me like it’s an \*ipso facto \*sexist word, when used to describe a female public figure. May not always trigger a banning, depending on the poster’s history, but certainly a Bad Word. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/40 "2020-05-14T22:49:56Z")
I had thought cunt was only allowed in the pit, but recent links show I am incorrect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769.md?page=3)