# Fighting misogyny - but "cunt" and "bitch" are still okay words **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 14, 2020, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769 "2020-05-14T04:16:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/41 "2020-05-14T23:16:43Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I had thought cunt was only allowed in the pit, but recent links show I am incorrect. Another possibility is that those incidents weren’t reported. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/42 "2020-05-14T23:18:35Z")
I guess this means that I cant post about my vacation in Scunthorpe? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/43 "2020-05-14T23:23:06Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Here are a handful of posts by a certain poster I wont mention because its probably against the rules. Also, the posts have been shortened to only include the crazy. > > Shoden trolled but never at this level or intensity. 1. What forum was this in? 2. Did you report it? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/44 "2020-05-14T23:23:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Another possibility is that those incidents weren’t reported. What is the rule? ---
**Author:** ![Nauplius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nauplius/32/51_2.png) [@Nauplius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nauplius)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/45 "2020-05-14T23:24:19Z")
nvm… ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/46 "2020-05-14T23:26:44Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > ‘Cunt’ on the other hand has additional baggage. I certainly see why it’s out of bounds. But to our cross-Atlantic cousins? Well, to (mis)quote Warren Ellis in ‘Crecy’? “There’s this. Cunt. Get used to it. This is an English story. To the English ‘cunt’ is an adjective.” I’m honestly surprised we haven’t seen it more from our UK posters over the years. It’s used more freely in the U.K., but it’s not used exclusively (or even principally) to demean women. So if the concern is misogyny, rather than just sweary words in general, I don’t think U.K. usage is relevant to whether it should be allowed on a predominantly U.S. board. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/47 "2020-05-14T23:44:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 1. What forum was this in? In a completely expected turn of events, those were all in the Pit. I’d restate once again that the Pit has different rules, but if it hasn’t worked the first 10 times it was explained, I don’t think it will work now. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/48 "2020-05-14T23:47:36Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > In a completely expected turn of events, those were all in the Pit. I’d restate once again that the Pit has different rules, but if it hasn’t worked the first 10 times it was explained, I don’t think it will work now. It’s like complaining about a speeding ticket by asking why those guys over at the racetrack aren’t getting tickets too. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/49 "2020-05-14T23:47:36Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yes, I understand why you would say that. It would prevent you from calling Melania Trump a cunt outside of the Pit :rolleyes: I never took you for the type who wears pearls. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/50 "2020-05-14T23:48:40Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > In a completely expected turn of events, those were all in the Pit. I’d restate once again that the Pit has different rules, but if it hasn’t worked the first 10 times it was explained, I don’t think it will work now. Hate speech isnt allowed in The Pit if I understand the rules. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/51 "2020-05-14T23:59:58Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > We disagree on this point. I think trying an insult free Great Debates would be a worthwhile experiment. Articulating arguments, rather than slinging mud, seems a very helpful progression to me. I have always found GD threads to be very well behaved for the most part. Posters tend not to insult each other directly. Third parties, or subjects of the debate don’t normally get that kind of courtesy, nor have there been rules to that effect. What people are suggesting is an entirely new level of etiquette. My personal opinion is that it isn’t necessary for good debate, nor is it a problem that needs solving. But as has already been pointed out, ‘Of course I would say that… I say disrespectful things about public persona who have shown themselves to be undeserving of respect.’ ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/52 "2020-05-15T00:27:20Z")
The rule on hate speech as posted in the Pit: > [@](#): > > No hate speech > > If you say hateful and/or racist things, you may get warned or banned. Some slurs are likely to be viewed as hate speech when used as insults, some aren’t. No, we aren’t going to give you a list. Our goal is not to restrict any and all speech which could be viewed by someone as offensive, but simply keep a modicum of decency, even here. I generally include sexual orientation and gender in there, also. However, I don’t consider “bitch” or “cunt” to necessarily be hate speech. I think there’s an argument to be made that “bitch” is a gendered pair with “dick,” like how “waitress” is a gendered pair to “waiter,” and doesn’t necessarily indicate group-level animosity the way racial slurs do. And, of course, the general offensiveness of “cunt” varies greatly by geographic region. So neither of these terms is strictly verboten. However, context matters, and the excessive use of these terms (“cunt” in particular) or using them in ways that expressly disparage women in general would be open to moderation. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/53 "2020-05-15T01:01:26Z")
Wouldn’t “bitch” be a gendered pair with “dog” (as the Brits use the canine terms), and “cunt” with “dick?” Speaking logically rather than emotionally. I call people “dicks” all the time, but am VERY cautious with “cunt,” so as to avoid getting a knee in the “balls.” ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/54 "2020-05-15T01:04:54Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Hate speech isnt allowed in The Pit if I understand the rules. The examples you gave were certainly about a poster hating specific things and people, but that’s not what “hate speech” is. If there’s something in those quotes you think qualifies as hate speech, point it out, because I’m not seeing it. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/55 "2020-05-15T07:00:32Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > However, context matters, and the excessive use of these terms ( **“cunt” in particular** ) or **using them in ways that expressly disparage women in general would be open to moderation.** I like that. I think it’s a good way to deal with the fact that the word means something different in different English-speaking regions. If this has been stated before, I was unaware of it. I wonder what the OP thinks. BTW, I did argue how dick and bitch are not equivalents, as the former is never used to imply that a woman is acting more like a man. Hence the former is seen as less offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/56 "2020-05-15T12:41:44Z")
Speaking logically, you’re correct, **Ukulele Ike**. But of course, we’re not talking logic here; we’re talking humans. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/57 "2020-05-15T14:04:42Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I never took you for the type who wears pearls. I personally don’t care what words people use to insult others because none of them hurt me. That’s my privilege as a white, heterosexual, gender-typical male. I’d rather you just say “I don’t want limits on insulting people in Great Debates because I might feel the need to call Melania Trump a cunt, and I don’t want to get warned for it” ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/58 "2020-05-15T14:19:46Z")
I think that the mods seem serious about addressing the problem of misogyny here, but I think that as the board’s culture changes, we all have to examine our behavior. It hasn’t been a conservative poster problem, it’s been a Straight Dope problem. I can’t imagine anyone who’s been here for any length of time couldn’t go back and find language that they regret using. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/59 "2020-05-15T17:27:55Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I generally include sexual orientation and gender in there, also. However, I don’t consider “bitch” or “cunt” to necessarily be hate speech. I think there’s an argument to be made that “bitch” is a gendered pair with “dick,” like how “waitress” is a gendered pair to “waiter,” and doesn’t necessarily indicate group-level animosity the way racial slurs do. And, of course, the general offensiveness of “cunt” varies greatly by geographic region. So neither of these terms is strictly verboten. However, context matters, and the excessive use of these terms (“cunt” in particular) or using them in ways that expressly disparage women in general would be open to moderation. Yes, it is all about how the general discourse evolves in its totality. It’s an interesting thing, once upon a time, certain words were “unprintable” or “not used in mixed company” but would be spoken in private conversation. Then there was a move to let it all hang out. Then has come the realization that the problem’s not the words but the beliefs and attitudes they represent. > [@madmonk28](#): > > I think that the mods seem serious about addressing the problem of misogyny here, but I think that as the board’s culture changes, we all have to examine our behavior. It hasn’t been a conservative poster problem, it’s been a Straight Dope problem. I can’t imagine anyone who’s been here for any length of time couldn’t go back and find language that they regret using. True. Coming up to 21 years on this board obviously the standards have changed and WE have changed. It is something we have to take into consideration and yes, at some point there will be expressions that are no longer acceptable in public discourse and that is not “wronging” us in any way. There are things 1999 JRD would say that 2020 JRD finds no longer clever or cute, and things 1999 JRD believed that he has come to no longer believe in over that time. OTOH we also have to be careful about wanting to deliberately engineer that cultural change rather than having it parallel that of the greater society. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2020, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769/60 "2020-05-15T17:37:16Z")
I think that big events like the banning of a long time poster stir stuff up and that’s ok. It’s a good time to reevaluate entrenched attitudes. The same thing happened when Starving Artist was banned, there was a lot of soul searching. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fighting-misogyny-but-cunt-and-bitch-are-still-okay-words/853769.md?page=4)