# FILM: Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 26, 2000, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297 "2000-12-26T22:01:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2001, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297/21 "2001-01-01T03:08:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Space Vampire \* > \*\*…That I get the idea that you, like most people, have some preconceived notions about martial arts movies… Mainly, that they all suck. And I think that while that’s understandable, seeing as most people in the US (and other English-speaking countries) only see either schlocky and poorly-dubbed '70s junk, or at most, dubbed and butchered '90s movies, it’s still silly… And at the risk of offending you, vaguely ethnocentric. Know what I mean, or do I need to make a third attempt? Anyway, I didn’t mean to beat up on you. “People like Anthracite” just meant “the uninitiated,” not “morons.” \*\* Well, I’m a bit more complicated than that. You see, my issue is that it seemed you were summarizing how I would feel about the movie based primarily on the martial arts aspect. And while the martial arts action was still amazingly good, IMO, it was not why I liked the movie overall. Let me explain something. I may not be any expert in any particular genre. And I certainly don’t have a degree in “Feeeeeeelm”, to paraphrase [Mr. Cranky](http://www.mrcranky.com). But I do see a tremendous number and variety of movies, and think I have a pretty good idea of what kicks ass and what sucks ass. Such that it is a common thing for people to come by my little office on Monday morning to ask what movies I saw over the weekend, and how I rated them. Overall, this movie was a welcome shower of quality in a long drought of mediocrity for this, the worst movie year that I can remember. As I said in my post - there were many things about this movie that stood out. The martial arts action was one of them that seemed to me to be pretty well done. The acting was very good, even that of Chow Yun Fat, IMO. He seemed to fit his character naturally. The theme of the movie, the choreography, the scenery and setting, and many small details that were paid attention to all combined with the things I previously mentioned to create a pretty damn good movie for the average “someone like Anthracite”. IMO, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Space\_Vampire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Space\_Vampire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Vampire)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2001, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297/22 "2001-01-01T03:14:13Z")
Well, I don’t really know if I got your point or you got mine, but as long as nobody’s mad it’s okay. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2001, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297/23 "2001-01-01T03:28:21Z")
I understood your point completely. I just did not think you understood mine, as evidenced by the comment I questioned. Let me ask you this - realizing that the average American film viewer will never notice that Chow Yun-Fat slipped into Cantonese by mistake, or that probably 0.001% of the US has even heard of such worthy films as “Ashes of Time” or “The Blade”, and far fewer have probably seen them. And consider as well the unmitigated Crap-o-Ramasup[/sup] that Hollywood has vomited forth upon our movie screens in 2000. Don’t you think it’s still worth a hearty recommendation, rather than a half-hearted one? That’s all I was trying to say. And I’m not “mad” at all. There is clear evidence when I am mad. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Space\_Vampire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Space\_Vampire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Vampire)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2001, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297/24 "2001-01-01T06:32:06Z")
Yeah, it’s a good movie, I agree. But like I said, I just can’t help but feel slightly disappointed. As for Americans not being familiar with said films… WHY NOT?! Mainstream Asian cinema is, for me, second only to breathing, and it frustrates me to see it marginalized. I just wish Americans would break out of domestic rut. Not everyone cares as much about movies as I do, (witness the legions who prefer pan&scan) but if people would make a little effort instead of just swallowing whatever shit the Hollywood publicity machine crams down their throats, they might find that “foreign films” aren’t limited to artsy European yawn-fests. Anyway, just trying to explain my point of view; this is the one topic that, if I don’t rant and rave about it, it seems no one will. ---
**Author:** ![Kid\_Gilligan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kid\_Gilligan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kid_Gilligan)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2001, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297/25 "2001-01-01T13:32:19Z")
AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHH NOT FAIR. I want to see this movie so badly, that I would fly to New York if I could afford it. Just wanted to let you know that I am quite jealous of you coastal types who are benefitting from early release. Maybe the studio will want to take advantage of the buzz and release early. ---
**Author:** ![Morrison\_s\_Lament](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Morrison\_s\_Lament](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morrison_s_Lament)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2001, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297/26 "2001-01-01T13:52:12Z")
I’ve said this somewhere before, but I got the DVD weeks ago and the movie is showing just about everywhere that I go these days… Of course, I AM living in China! 🙂 It’s a great movie and ya’ll should appreciate the delayed gratification of having to wait for it… muhahaha, just kidding. Go charter a plane, see it now! — G. Raven ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2001, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297/27 "2001-01-01T17:13:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kid\_Gilligan \* > **Just wanted to let you know that I am quite jealous of you coastal types who are benefitting from early release.** **Coastal types???** Boy, I live in Kansas City - wheat fed and ass spanked! ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2001, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297/28 "2001-01-02T11:00:07Z")
Just saw it tonight. I liked it a lot. (am I the only one who now has a thing for ‘Jen’?) I could have done without the flying. At least, they should have made some attempt to explain how they were flying. You know, some mention of magic technique in the manual. At the very least, those who were earthbound should have looked impressed!!! I liked the unconsumated love angle. **Spooje** got a little weepy. But I was troubled by a couple of things. 1. If Jade Fox couldn’t _read_ the manual, and therefore couldn’t progress, how’d she get good enough to kill Chow Yun-Fat _and_ his master, who I assume would be just a little bit better. 2. How come they didn’t put Chow on horse and take him to where Jen would make the antidote? And didn’t it look like she stayed to make several helpings? I mean, she shows back up with big horking bag o’ antidote, when I expected, I dunno, a vile, maybe. Dad gummit! I want answers! BTW, is **Robot Arm** really Joe Bob? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2001, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297/29 "2001-01-02T19:26:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spooje \* > **1) If Jade Fox couldn’t _read_ the manual, and therefore couldn’t progress, how’d she get good enough to kill Chow Yun-Fat _and_ his master, who I assume would be just a little bit better.** Well, she poisoned the master, so that didn’t require a lot of head-on martial arts skill (“Sweetie, can you go get me a glass of water while I put some poison in your porridge? Thanks, luv.”). As for getting Chow-Yun Fat, I would say she just got lucky. Deflecting 599 out of 600 poisoned needles isn’t exactly a stroll in the park… 🙂 > [@](#): > > **2) How come they didn’t put Chow on horse and take him to where Jen would make the antidote?** Maybe the stress of riding on a racing horse back to the camp would weaken his metabolism further and reduce the time he had left? It seemed implied to me that they didn’t want to stress him any more than necessary. **Shrug** > [@](#): > > **BTW, is Robot Arm really Joe Bob?** Dunno, but wouldn’t it be great if he was? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297/30 "2001-01-03T05:05:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > > > [@](#): > > > > **BTW, is Robot Arm really Joe Bob?** > > Dunno, but wouldn’t it be great if he was? 🙂 Yes it would be great, but no I’m not Joe Bob. Actually, I saw the question this morning, but I wanted to let the idea linger for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Space\_Vampire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Space\_Vampire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Vampire)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297/31 "2001-01-03T09:02:55Z")
No way in hell should the flying have been “explained.” It’s a given for the genre. I think if the movie had been dumbed down and westernized (which some say it has been, though I would argue that’s Ang Lee’s style) it would’ve lost a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297/32 "2001-01-03T17:17:23Z")
I loved this movie. For the people complaining about the flying: Look, it is a standard convention that martial arts masters can overcome normal human limitations. What, you wanted some dialogue, “Now I’m going to use my mastery of martial arts to overcome the limitations of gravity”? Would that have explained it for you? This is a standard convention albeit to an extreme, just like the standard conventions you find in westerns or cop shows. Nobody complains “Y’know, it just wasn’t realistic for that cop to be so sarcastic. A REAL cop would have been more polite. And how could he think up all those great comebacks so fast? And where did that fruit cart come from?” or “Boy, underneath that hard-bitten exterior, that prostitute had a good heart. Who’d a thunk it?” I’ve always been interested in Ang Lee, ever since “The Wedding Banquet”. After this movie, he’s going to be able to do anything he wants. Unfortunately that sometimes turns into a curse. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297/33 "2001-01-03T20:47:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ukulele Ike \* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Yarster \* > > \*\*And the ending? Uh…I suck for killing Michelle Yeoh’s true love so I’ll jump off this mountain? By the way, does she die? \*\* > > Earlier in the film someone tells the folk tale of the boy who leaps off the mountain, and thereby causes his family’s wish to come true (no, they DIDN’T wish he’d leap off a mountain!). > > Since Lo has wished that he and Jen could be back happily living in the desert, I assume that Jen’s intention was to cause this wish to come true. Which would put her alive and well, with Lo, in the desert. And possibly forestall the poisoning of the Chow Yun Fat character by Jade Fox. I thought this was the coolest bit of the film. FTR, I saw it twice last week, with different groups, and no one really agreed with each other about what Jen wished for and whether she died. Remember, the desert thing was Lo’s wish, not Jen’s. I had a feeling that Jen had grown beyond Lo, nice guy that he was and all. I, being the schmuck of course, had two problems. First, it wasn’t the right mountain, and second, Jen can fly, dammit!! In my mind, that’s just cheating! 😃 Sua ---
**Author:** ![Ivar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/51bf81/32.png) [@Ivar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivar)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2001, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297/34 "2001-01-03T22:42:10Z")
Not Fair! Minneapolis isn’t getting it until January 12! i can’t wait, though. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297/35 "2001-01-04T02:20:46Z")
Haven’t seen it, but am very excited about it. I just discovered the genre last year-- Chinese Ghost Story, Comet Butterfly and Sword, Warriors from the Mountain Zu (or something)-- great stuff! A new interpretation with a larger budget should be interesting. This is NOT Matrix rip-off material; this is a quite old and well-developed genre of its own, so get over it, kids. I think it’s marvelous and fresh and it makes me smile so hard the top two thirds of my head starts to fall off. ---
**Author:** ![Heath\_Doolin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Heath\_Doolin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heath_Doolin)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297/36 "2001-01-04T10:01:48Z")
IT’S SUCH A GOOOOOOD MOVIE Great wirework, solid WuShu scenes, the bamboo fight scene may rank as one of the most visually STUNNING things I have seen in a while. Loved the characters, the intrigue and deception. Chow chewed scenery every chance he got and I still find him to be a riveting actor. Yeoh was gorgeous and is showing her age well. Zhang is a fresh newcomer I want to see more of. And I must say Pei-Pei Cheng as the Jade Fox was SO COOL. She must be something like late 60’s and is still throwing down moves that are jaw dropping. Loved the ending…appropriate to a movie of legends and on par with the mythos of China. MK, you have discovered the realm of wire fu. There are TONS of movies involving that and you got a good start. If you are looking for other excellent Wire Fu/Chinese Mytho titles, I highly suggest: Mister Vampire Moon Warriors The Fiery Dragon Kid Deadful Melody ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297/37 "2001-01-04T10:44:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lemur866 \* > \*\* > For the people complaining about the flying: Look, it is a standard convention that martial arts masters can overcome normal human limitations. What, you wanted some dialogue, “Now I’m going to use my mastery of martial arts to overcome the limitations of gravity”? Would that have explained it for you? > > \*\* I don’t think I like your condecending tone. I _would_ have liked just a little background laying, as gravity is a little more than a normal human limitation. ---
**Author:** ![vix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a88e4f/32.png) [@vix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vix)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297/38 "2001-01-04T14:56:51Z")
Loved it. I thought it was a beautiful fantasy/fairy tale, and I mean that in the most flattering way. I would see it again and have been urging family and friends to go. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297/39 "2001-01-04T19:19:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SuaSponte \* > **I had a feeling that Jen had grown beyond Lo, nice guy that he was and all.** I dunno, I thought she was just overwhelmed with guilt about her lot in life – she gets to be happy with Lo, but her “sister” ends up a lonely old maid because she (Jen) screwed things up. Fits more with the general downbeat ending, IMO. > [@](#): > > **I, being the schmuck of course, had two problems. First, it wasn’t the right mountain, and second, Jen can fly, dammit!!** She can’t fly, she just gets Jordan-esque air time. 🙂 And if Samuel L. Jackson can be a Jedi in _The Phantom Menace,_ why not Chow-Yun Fat? He doesn’t even need a lightsaber – any bamboo stick will do… 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/film-crouching-tiger-hidden-dragon/47297.md?page=1)