# Films & television shows that have been 'de-gayed" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 4, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438 "2006-05-04T19:43:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438/41 "2006-05-05T14:24:42Z")
**Rebel Without a Cause-** you know Plato had a major crush on Jim. And what’s up with the picture of Alan Ladd in his locker- too funny! ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438/42 "2006-05-05T17:46:57Z")
**Wee Bairn** , you have an opposite case there. Stewart Stern, who wrote the screenplay for _Rebel Without a Cause_, says that he had not intended a gay subtext to Plato’s character, although he finds that a legitimate interpretation, based on how director Nicholas Ray and actor Sal Mineo saw the role. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438/43 "2006-05-05T18:02:00Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > Are you saying the male character was not present in the stage play? Dr. Joe Cardin was Karen’s fiancé in the original Hellman play, the 1936 movie, and the 1961 movie. I guess I should have worded my statement better. I meant that an _affair_ between Martha and Joe didn’t exist in the original play - obviously, since Martha comes out at the end. Sorry for the confusion. **Malacandra** - I would think that Batman’s name being Bruce was the _reason_ that the “Hulk” producers thought Bruce was a swishy name; 'cuz we all know that Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson - - no, never mind. That’s a topic for another thread. I won’t go there. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438/44 "2006-05-05T18:21:25Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > In “The Maltese Falcon”, Wilmer is a “gunsel”, which a lot of people took to mean “gun-carrying hoodlum”, but which meant “homosexual”. Those in the know didn’t bother correcting people. Granted on gunsel. But it’s clear from Spade’s reaction to Joel Cairo (especially his business card) that he thinks Cairo is, at the very least, not very manly. There were hints about homosexuality in some 30s comedies, too – some fairly blatant (“Because I went gay all of a sudden.”). Or the prisoner in **Modern Times**. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438/45 "2006-05-05T18:45:32Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > **Wee Bairn** , you have an opposite case there. Stewart Stern, who wrote the screenplay for _Rebel Without a Cause_, says that he had not intended a gay subtext to Plato’s character, although he finds that a legitimate interpretation, based on how director Nicholas Ray and actor Sal Mineo saw the role. Are you sure about this? It’s been awhile since I’ve seen Celluloid Closet and perhaps I’ve misremembered; but I thought he it was intentional and he wishes he had made it more obvious. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438/46 "2006-05-05T18:55:09Z")
There’s _Golden Girls_. The pilot episode included a fruitier-than-a-nutcake housekeeper, whom Sophie kept calling the “fancy man”. No sign of him in the series, though. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438/47 "2006-05-05T20:19:23Z")
> [@The New and Improved Superman](#): > > Dishonorable mention: **the Incredible Hulk** - In the comic book, the Hulk’s alter-ego is Dr. Bruce Banner. When the series was being developed, producers insisted his name be changed because ‘Bruce’ was “a swishy fag name.” I don’t think this is true. I’ve heard Stan Lee say that he was very bad at remembering secret identity names. In an attempt to help himself remember, he chose alliterative names, like “Peter Parker.” But that didn’t always work. In the case of the Hulk he mistakenly referred to Bruce Banner as “Bob Banner” and then had to explain later that his full name was really Robert Bruce Banner. According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Incredible_Hulk_%28TV_Series%29), the producer of the TV series changed it to “David Banner,” because he didn’t like alliterative names. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438/48 "2006-05-05T20:22:09Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > **The Color Purple** is the first one that comes to my mind. Was the book more gay? It was pretty damn obvious that Whoopi’s character and Shug were doing the nasty… ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438/49 "2006-05-05T21:22:04Z")
Re **Rebel Without A Cause** , my post was based on some list I read somewhere “10 Things you did not know about Rebel…” or some such, one item on the list is that Nicholas Ray wanted to add a kiss between Plato and Jim, but the studio balked. Whether this is a UL, plain ol’ BS or whatever, who knows? ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438/50 "2006-05-05T21:24:27Z")
To continue my post, this may be both cases- original script= not gay at all, additions to script= gay, then gay addition removed 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438/51 "2006-05-05T21:40:05Z")
_Queer Eye for the Straight Guy_. De-gayed couldn’t express it better. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2006, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438/52 "2006-05-05T22:17:24Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > _Queer Eye for the Straight Guy_. De-gayed couldn’t express it better. Um…what? A show featuring five gay men who make constant reference to being gay has been de-gayed? Are you trying to make a joke or are you just really unclear on the concept? ---
**Author:** ![Dusty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a183cd/32.png) [@Dusty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dusty)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438/53 "2006-05-06T00:25:57Z")
You mention movies, TV, books, and etc. In the “etc.” group, there’s Mozart’s opera _Apollo & Hyacinthus_, in which all suggestion that anything’s going on between the title characters is expunged (a miraculous feat, considering that’s the entire story). > [@RealityChuck](#): > > There were hints about homosexuality in some 30s comedies… [e.g.] the prisoner in **Modern Times**. The sissy gay man was a staple comedic character in the '20s and '30s, you can find many such examples. ---
**Author:** ![MidnightRadio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@MidnightRadio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MidnightRadio)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438/54 "2006-05-06T00:46:51Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Fried Green Tomatoes is another classic example. > [@FisherQueen](#): > > **Fried Green Tomatoes** really makes me angry. The book is a really charming lesbian love story. The movie is quite good, but removes the love story entirely, making the main characters motivated by friendship. When I read the book, I muttered, “Well, that story sure makes more sense now.” I agree with **DooWahDiddy**. I never really thought _Fried Green Tomatoes_ was de-gayed. I saw the movie before I ever read the book and without knowing anything about the story beforehand except what I’d seen in the trailers, and I thought it was pretty clear that Ruth and Idgie were lovers. Though I guess it’s more subtle in the movie, so maybe you could say it was _somewhat_ de-gayed. > [@monstro](#): > > **The Color Purple** is the first one that comes to my mind. I haven’t read the book (and can’t remember the characters names), but I distinctly remember Whoopi Goldberg kissing a woman in that movie. Of course, it’s been about twenty years since I last saw it, so… > [@astro](#): > > “Breakfast at Tiffanys” - Wasn’t the George Peppard character gay in the book, but not the movie? I don’t remember it being stated outright, but Holly implies that she knows he is. She says something like, “It’s okay to be queer. I think everybody’s a _little_ bit queer. Even me, sometimes.” ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438/55 "2006-05-06T02:14:06Z")
> [@MidnightRadio](#): > > I agree with **DooWahDiddy**. I never really thought _Fried Green Tomatoes_ was de-gayed. I saw the movie before I ever read the book and without knowing anything about the story beforehand except what I’d seen in the trailers, and I thought it was pretty clear that Ruth and Idgie were lovers. The main difference is that in the book (which was never sexually graphic or anything like) Idgie was flat out _butch_. She looked like a marine as an old woman, but even as a young woman people usually thought she was a man until they got closer. She wore an ambiguous outfit of overalls and work shirts most of the time, she was identifably masculine- _nobody_ seeing a similar character today would assume she was anything but gay. In the movie they lighten this to a retake on Ellie Mae- she’s a happy go lucky tom boy basically, and if you’re one of the people who’s bothered by lesbianism (like my sister and aunt and some co-workers) then you’ll just see two platonic friends who happen to live together. And own a business together. And never demonstrate the slightest interest in the opposite sex. And raise a child together. Whose surname is taken from the masculine partner in the relationship. Like platonic friends will often do. ---
**Author:** ![supervenusfreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@supervenusfreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supervenusfreak)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438/56 "2006-05-06T02:42:38Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > Was the book more gay? It was pretty damn obvious that Whoopi’s character and Shug were doing the nasty… Yeah it was. Alice Walker made it much more obvious that Celie and Shug were in love. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438/57 "2006-05-06T02:45:44Z")
I’m still not sure how the movie could have been more obvious, short of showing them actually doing it on camera. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438/58 "2006-05-06T03:35:14Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > I’m still not sure how the movie could have been more obvious, short of showing them actually doing it on camera. I think the lesbianism in the movie **The Color Purple** is kinda like the lesbianism in the movie **Fried Green Tomatoes**. If your gaydar is working well, you will catch the clues and see the subtext. If your gaydar is broken or nonexistent, you will simply not see them. It’s actually harder to see in **The Color Purple**. In the film, Shug was obviously not bothered by male companionship (she was shown having two heterosexual relationships). The kiss between the two women might be passed off as alcohol-induced giddiness. The movie does not show them cohabitating once they get to Memphis (or wherever they went off to). Celie’s loss of her sister might explain her clinginess to Shug. On the surface, it looks like they have a sisterly relationship, not really all that different from what exists between very close friends. When you compare the book with the film, you realize how “de-gayed” the story is. I recommend you read it. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438/59 "2006-05-06T03:43:28Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > When you compare the book with the film, you realize how “de-gayed” the story is. I recommend you read it. The book graphically describes the sex act as memory serves (i.e. uses phrases that rhyme with ‘kussy flips’ and the like). It also makes it clear that Shug is legitimately bisexual and Celie essentially a lesbian who has had sex with men. I love the scene towards the end of the book when Mister gives her a wonderful gift- -she compares men to ‘frogs’, saying that she doesn’t hate them but she sure doesn’t want one in her bed or as her companion and never will, and later when he asks her to remarry him she tells him that she loves him “but I still don’t want no frog”. She also tells him the title comment about ‘The Color Purple’. Mister, who in the book becomes one of her closest friends after their separation and his redemption [which was also hinted at but never shown in the movie- though a deleted scene did show them on the porch together when they’re old] whittles a frog from wood, paints it purple and gives it to her as an ‘I accept and love you’ gesture, saying it’s the only frog she’ll ever have to have. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438/60 "2006-05-06T03:45:15Z")
Irrelevant to the OP addendum to the above: Actually, by the time they’re friends Mister is referred to as Albert in Celie’s letters [the book is completely epistolary] because, to quote Alice Walker, he’s finally ‘earned’ a name. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-television-shows-that-have-been-de-gayed/355438.md?page=4)