# Films that are anti-democracy **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 20, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641 "2012-11-20T20:15:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/1 "2012-11-20T20:15:11Z")
I saw the Ralph Fiennes version of [Coriolanus](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1372686/) earlier this year, and I was struck by the anti-democratic tone of the film (yes, I know it’s a Shakespeare adaptation). It depicts the masses having no political will of their own, instead easily manipulated by cynical demagagues. The character of Coriolanus openly despises popular rule as allowing “the crows to peck the eagles.” The film seems to suggest that a strong ruler, who loves the people but is not bound to their will, is the ideal form of government. As an American, that message seems to be very rare in the films released here. I thought on it for a bit, and could only think of one other film that I would call anti-democracy: [The Last Samurai](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0325710/), which glorifes the samurai aristrocracy, and demonizes the Meiji government’s reforms as selling out the Japanese culture to Western interests. What other films are openly, or implicitly, anti-democracy? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/2 "2012-11-20T20:21:33Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I saw the Ralph Fiennes version of [Coriolanus](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1372686/) earlier this year, and I was struck by the anti-democratic tone of the film (yes, I know it’s a Shakespeare adaptation). It depicts the masses having no political will of their own, instead easily manipulated by cynical demagagues. The character of Coriolanus openly despises popular rule as allowing “the crows to peck the eagles.” The film seems to suggest that a strong ruler, who loves the people but is not bound to their will, is the ideal form of government. > > As an American, that message seems to be very rare in the films released here. I thought on it for a bit, and could only think of one other film that I would call anti-democracy: [The Last Samurai](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0325710/), which glorifes the samurai aristrocracy, and demonizes the Meiji government’s reforms as selling out the Japanese culture to Western interests. > > What other films are openly, or implicitly, anti-democracy? You should see “Gabriel over the White House” ([Gabriel Over the White House - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Over_the_White_House)), in which the hero (the President of the US) dissolves Congress and rules as a dictator, saving the nation and the world from disaster. No, it’s not intended ironically. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/3 "2012-11-20T21:00:40Z")
The Star Wars prequels spring to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/4 "2012-11-20T21:05:28Z")
Not exactly anti-democracy but considered pro-totalitarian by many, [Hero](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_(2002_film)) (_Ying xiong_) from 2002 features an assassination attempt on a king who is taking over various other states of ancient China. The latest assassin (after 3 previous failures) gets close to the king, and reveals that his family was killed during one of the king’s battles to take over another state. The king reveals that one of the previous assassins failed because he was convinced by the king that he is the only hope for peace in the region, unifying the warring states under his rule by force. The current assassin believes this as well, leaves, and is accidentally killed by another wannabe-assassin when he tries to explain his viewpoint. He receives a state hero’s funeral. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/5 "2012-11-20T21:17:27Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > The Star Wars prequels spring to mind. I don’t think so. While the plot involves a failure of democracy, the destruction of a democratic society, and its replacement with a totalitarian system, is unambiguously portrayed as a tragedy of galactic proportions. For the movies to be anti-democracy, it would have to view the rise of the Emperor as a good thing, not a disaster. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/6 "2012-11-20T22:25:42Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Not exactly anti-democracy but considered pro-totalitarian by many, [Hero](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_(2002_film)) (_Ying xiong_) from 2002 features an assassination attempt on a king who is taking over various other states of ancient China. The latest assassin (after 3 previous failures) gets close to the king, and reveals that his family was killed during one of the king’s battles to take over another state. The king reveals that one of the previous assassins failed because he was convinced by the king that he is the only hope for peace in the region, unifying the warring states under his rule by force. The current assassin believes this as well, leaves, and is accidentally killed by another wannabe-assassin when he tries to explain his viewpoint. He receives a state hero’s funeral. You need to rewatch that movie, that’s not how it ends at all, your own cite says so. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/7 "2012-11-20T22:33:08Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > As an American, that message seems to be very rare in the films released here. I thought on it for a bit, and could only think of one other film that I would call anti-democracy: [The Last Samurai](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0325710/), which glorifes the samurai aristrocracy, and demonizes the Meiji government’s reforms as selling out the Japanese culture to Western interests. See I disagree with this as well. The samurai fought for an independent Japan as opposed to a puppet government, not a democracy, controlled by the US in order to exploit Japan’s people and resources. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/8 "2012-11-20T22:36:54Z")
Lost Horizon - either version, I suppose, but probably the Ronald Coleman one a bit more. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/9 "2012-11-20T22:40:39Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Not exactly anti-democracy but considered pro-totalitarian by many, [Hero](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_(2002_film)) (_Ying xiong_) from 2002 features an assassination attempt on a king who is taking over various other states of ancient China. The latest assassin (after 3 previous failures) gets close to the king, and reveals that his family was killed during one of the king’s battles to take over another state. The king reveals that one of the previous assassins failed because he was convinced by the king that he is the only hope for peace in the region, unifying the warring states under his rule by force. The current assassin believes this as well, leaves, and is accidentally killed by another wannabe-assassin when he tries to explain his viewpoint. He receives a state hero’s funeral. I came to post that movie. The Chinese government loved it, because it is great propaganda for one-party rule. It’s also a stunningly beautiful and moving piece of cinema, that transcends both its message and its genre. _Definitely_ recommended. And for what it’s worth, **Zoid** is right. The movie ends with Nameless being killed by the order of the King, because he was, after all, an assassin. I think you’re thinking about Broken Sword, who was killed by Snow because he could not kill the King. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/10 "2012-11-20T22:45:05Z")
Right on regarding the Hero corrections; I apologize as I was posting in haste. It has been about a decade since I last saw it and my memory was fuzzy. Regardless, the story supports a totalitarian solution. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/11 "2012-11-20T22:56:54Z")
“Triumph of the Will” is too obvious, right? ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/12 "2012-11-20T23:13:49Z")
Casting a broad net, I suppose any story involving a King or Queen triumphing in some way would be considered anti-democratic, to some degree. No? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/13 "2012-11-20T23:31:41Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Casting a broad net, I suppose any story involving a King or Queen triumphing in some way would be considered anti-democratic, to some degree. No? Nope. Queen Amidala did pretty well… up until she died. But the democracy lived on, even though it had an elected monarch. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/14 "2012-11-20T23:33:21Z")
Anti-democracy films? Almost all of the \*\*fairy tale movies \*\*made since the beginning of cinema would qualify, with some of our most cherished Disney flicks at the top of that list! Am I the only one who is offended to the core whenever some princess, queen, king or other privileged-by-birthright-only royal is foisted upon the audience as the hero of a movie? The founding principle of the USA was a rejection of the concept of monarchy, based on the logic that such a system is inherently undemocratic. I say, “Down with Ariel, Simba, Prince Charming, Pocahontas and all the rest! Let democracy reign! POWER TO THE PEOPLE!” ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/15 "2012-11-20T23:41:59Z")
The first interactive movie, [Kinoautomat](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinoautomat) (1967) was ironically anti-democratic. It was a kind of “Choose your own adventure” film where no matter what decisions were made by the voting audience the end result was always the same - The hero’s apartment goes up in flames. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/16 "2012-11-20T23:52:24Z")
Is _Birth of a Nation_ too obvious? Black people stuffing ballot boxes in the South, and so on? > [@stuyguy](#): > > The founding principle of the USA was a rejection of the concept of monarchy, based on the logic that such a system is inherently undemocratic. No it wasn’t. The founding principle of the USA was that the monarch was being an arse, not that he shouldn’t have existed at all. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/17 "2012-11-20T23:56:56Z")
> [@Andy L](#): > > You should see “Gabriel over the White House” ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel...he\_White\_House](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel...he_White_House)), in which the hero (the President of the US) dissolves Congress and rules as a dictator, saving the nation and the world from disaster. No, it’s not intended ironically. Wow, that is mind-blowingly bizarre. I need to see this for myself. Did America flirt that hard with fascism, or is this the work of a few radicals? > [@Grey](#): > > The Star Wars prequels spring to mind. > [@Miller](#): > > I don’t think so. While the plot involves a failure of democracy, the destruction of a democratic society, and its replacement with a totalitarian system, is unambiguously portrayed as a tragedy of galactic proportions. For the movies to be anti-democracy, it would have to view the rise of the Emperor as a good thing, not a disaster. The democracy in question, i.e. the Galactic Senate, _is_ portrayed as ineffectual and maddeningly slow, as per the scene where Queen Amidala pleads with Chancellor Valorum and the Senate to come to her planet’s defense. The Senate is easily led, and seduced into giving more and more power to a demagogue, though this figure, the eventual Emperor, is portrayed as an even worse option. The strongest voice for reason and democracy in the films would be the Jedi, so perhaps Lucas was endorsing a theocracy of monks? > [@zoid](#): > > See I disagree with this as well. The samurai fought for an independent Japan as opposed to a puppet government, not a democracy, controlled by the US in order to exploit Japan’s people and resources. We differ on whether the Meiji Restoration was beneficial to the Japanese people, but the “independent Japan” the samurai fought for was one wherein they ruled as an aristocracy over peasants with no legal rights to speak of. The film takes the side of the samurai, which I found appalling. > [@Ranchoth](#): > > “Triumph of the Will” is too obvious, right? I was only thinking of narrative films, but documentaries should count too, right? Any other documentaries come to mind? > [@Icarus](#): > > Casting a broad net, I suppose any story involving a King or Queen triumphing in some way would be considered anti-democratic, to some degree. No? Possibly, though that might be more of an ademocratic (if that’s a word) film than an anti-democratic one, since no alternatives are mentioned nor seem to exist within the fiction world. Still, that could be called implicitly anti-democratic. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/18 "2012-11-20T23:58:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is _Birth of a Nation_ too obvious? Black people stuffing ballot boxes in the South, and so on? But the Klan in the film was “protecting” democracy by keeping Blacks from voting. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/19 "2012-11-21T00:00:17Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Wow, that is mind-blowingly bizarre. I need to see this for myself. Did American flirt that hard with fascism, or is this the work of a few radicals? Interestingly, it’s the work of a bunch of hardcore Progressives, and was paid for by William Randolph Hearst. It was mostly aimed at glorifying FDR and his occasional strong-arm tactics. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_A.Robrin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sam_a.robrin/32/14497_2.png) [@Sam\_A.Robrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_A.Robrin)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/20 "2012-11-21T02:42:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Interestingly, it’s the work of a bunch of hardcore Progressives, and was paid for by William Randolph Hearst. It was mostly aimed at glorifying FDR and his occasional strong-arm tactics. I’ve heard a rumor that the script was ghost-edited by FDR himself. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641.md?page=2)