# Films that are anti-democracy **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 20, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641 "2012-11-20T20:15:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/41 "2012-11-22T23:01:40Z")
Regarding the OP, how about _The Scarlet Pimpernel_? The movie portrays the hero saving the ruling elite from the excesses of the French Revolution. While it is undeniable the Revolution turned horribly bloody and much injustice was done, the past history of the kings and aristocracy of France is filled with all sorts of horrible bloody crimes against the populace. After reading Barbara Tuchman’s _A Distant Mirror_, it’s pretty hard to sympathize with the French nobility, even though we know individuals who suffered in the Revolution had not personally committed those excesses. And of course, the Scarlet Pimpernel was motivated partly by traditional British power politics – _at all costs_, prevent a single unified Continental power from coalescing – in addition to his humane motivations. Certainly the movie has elitist / anti-populist undercurrents. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2012, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/42 "2012-11-23T01:41:20Z")
> [@glaeken](#): > > I always see the message of Hero as Nameless seeing the King represents the lessor evil compared with continual war. He recognises that at some point people need to stop seeking revenge to end the continual fighting and the King while far from perfect is their best option for stability. > > Of course this could be the film transcending its own intended message 😃 As Nameless is leaving on his mission, Broken Sword attempts to dissuade him by writing a character in the sand. The word was, I believe, “tien shun”, which was translated “our country”. I had a buddy who was very interested in east Asian cinema; he showed me _Hero_ on DVD about a year and a half before the U.S. theatrical release. The DVD was subtitled in English, but not the same translation as the theatrical version; in that, “tien shun” was translated “one under Heaven”. There is probably not one exact translation from Mandarin to English, but “one under Heaven” is certainly capable of an antidemocratic, pro-one-party rule interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2012, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/43 "2012-11-23T04:23:58Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > Bob Roberts certainly warns of the dangers of democracy… Well, there are certainly quite a few movies that show the seamy side of democracy without necessarily saying that some other system of governance would be better. In addition to _Bob Roberts_, off the top of my head I can think of _Advise and Consent, Head of State, Ides of March, All the King’s Men, All the President’s Men, The Best Man, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, Tanner on Tanner, The Seduction of Joe Tynan_ and _The Candidate_. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2012, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/44 "2012-11-23T05:24:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t think so. While the plot involves a failure of democracy, the destruction of a democratic society, and its replacement with a totalitarian system, is unambiguously portrayed as a tragedy of galactic proportions. For the movies to be anti-democracy, it would have to view the rise of the Emperor as a good thing, not a disaster. The movies attempt to put forth that message. They fail, many of the audience leave with symphathy for the Empire which let’s face it was much better. Another movie: **Syriana** ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2012, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/45 "2012-11-23T06:42:20Z")
Yeah the Star Wars prequels end up being anti-democratic. The people can’t do anything and their elected officials are ineffectual, tied up in bureaucracy. And a dictator controlling everything is also bad. What’s good? A small elite (the Jedi) who are superhuman and don’t need laws and regulations to keep them from doing what’s right, and are only bound by their own code. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/46 "2012-11-24T07:46:55Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > You should see “Gabriel over the White House” ([Gabriel Over the White House - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Over_the_White_House)), in which the hero (the President of the US) dissolves Congress and rules as a dictator, saving the nation and the world from disaster. No, it’s not intended ironically. Yet another vote for this film. One of the more interesting bits is that it accurately predicts the threat that airplanes posed to warships with the President displaying that tactic to cow the rest of the world. Also rather progressively the mobs of unemployed people protesting (based on the Bonus Army) included both whites and blacks while they seem to have used actual Asians to portray Asian characters. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/47 "2012-11-25T08:28:03Z")
A post WWII British comedy come to mind, though I’m not quite sure it fits. _Passport to Pimlico_ – A ancient Royal Charter is found granting a neighborhood in London to a minor French royal. The descendant of the royal is found, and the neighborhood secedes from England. There’s more to it of course, but it’s a very fine film and enjoyable whether it fits or not. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/48 "2012-11-25T14:58:07Z")
In addition to what’s been mentioned above, it’s hard to consider _The Last Samurai_ to be anti-democratic when Meiji Japan wasn’t a democracy in any way, shape, or form. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/49 "2012-11-25T16:37:06Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Well, there are certainly quite a few movies that show the seamy side of democracy without necessarily saying that some other system of governance would be better. In addition to _Bob Roberts_, off the top of my head I can think of _Advise and Consent, Head of State, Ides of March, All the King’s Men, All the President’s Men, The Best Man, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, Tanner on Tanner, The Seduction of Joe Tynan_ and _The Candidate_. And, perhaps best of all, _Lincoln_. ---
**Author:** ![DxZero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DxZero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DxZero)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/50 "2012-11-25T16:42:59Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Another movie: **Syriana** Not the I disagree with you (I might), but what specifically about it is anti-democratic? It is anti-interventionist for sure, but the concept of democracy isn’t really taken to task. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_A.Robrin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sam_a.robrin/32/14497_2.png) [@Sam\_A.Robrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_A.Robrin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/51 "2012-11-25T23:41:15Z")
One problem is that people tend to use the word “democracy” to mean something akin to “American patriotism” or “chauvinism,” really, in the literal sense of that word. If you take the pure definition of “democracy” as majority rule, then any film that portrays an individual bucking the complacency of the crowd qualifies here. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/52 "2012-11-26T01:21:27Z")
> [@Reno\_Nevada](#): > > The one who had his heart removed by the Old Man of the Mountains, causing Li Kao and Number Ten Ox endless troubles. Immortality’s not much good without invulnerability. And anti-aging. Damn, I’ve got to pull those books off the shelves again. Been too long since I’ve read them, and I curse the fate that prevented Hughart from writing more. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/53 "2012-11-26T01:40:41Z")
To give the Devil his due, _Birth of a Nation_ tells a rather uplifting story _ **IF** _ you accept the premises it takes for granted:[ul] [li]that [del]African-Americans[/del] “Negros” are a race of imbecilic hominids, only distinguishable from the apes by a rudimentary power of speech, and incapable of existing in civilization except under the guidance of white masters- either their kindly southern owners, or the demagogic Yankees.[/li][li]That the Civil War was due to the scheming of the emerging northern “money power”, which used some progressive fanatics’ ranting about slavery as an excuse for conquest.[/li][li]That having disenfranchised the former rebels, the Yankees set up corrupt puppet governments of carpetbaggers and scalawags that looted the South; and used the Negros as their Janissaries, “payed” in permission to loot and rape.[/li][li]And that at last, a heroic resistance arose and liberated the people\* of the South from oppression.[/li][/ul] \*whites of course; negros don’t count. In fact the entire Southron attitude makes perfect sense given a single premise: that Africans aren’t human beings, at least not in the same sense whites are. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/54 "2012-11-26T01:55:10Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > To give the Devil his due, _Birth of a Nation_ tells a rather uplifting story _ **IF** _ you accept the premises it takes for granted:[ul] > [li]that [del]African-Americans[/del] “Negros” are a race of imbecilic hominids, only distinguishable from the apes by a rudimentary power of speech, and incapable of existing in civilization except under the guidance of white masters- either their kindly southern owners, or the demagogic Yankees.[/li][li]That the Civil War was due to the scheming of the emerging northern “money power”, which used some progressive fanatics’ ranting about slavery as an excuse for conquest.[/li][li]That having disenfranchised the former rebels, the Yankees set up corrupt puppet governments of carpetbaggers and scalawags that looted the South; and used the Negros as their Janissaries, “payed” in permission to loot and rape.[/li][li]And that at last, a heroic resistance arose and liberated the people\* of the South from oppression.[/li][/ul] > \*whites of course; negros don’t count. In fact the entire Southron attitude makes perfect sense given a single premise: that Africans aren’t human beings, at least not in the same sense whites are. Reminds me of a Bill Hicks joke about the Rodney King beating video. > [@](#): > > Cop on trial: What you see in that video all depends on how you look at it. > Lawyer: What do you mean? > Cop: Well, if you watch it backward you see us help Mr. King up and send him on his way! ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/55 "2012-11-26T14:51:07Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > In addition to what’s been mentioned above, it’s hard to consider _The Last Samurai_ to be anti-democratic when Meiji Japan wasn’t a democracy in any way, shape, or form. Fair enough, but it takes the side of an aristocracy trying to keep its inborn privileges, and contrasts them with the common folk, who are depicted as uncouth levelers (refusing to show deference to a samurai and mocking his top knot) and cultural sellouts (serving in the Imperial army, and moved to tears after defeating the samural in battle, shamed at what they’ve done). Thus, it advocates rule by a privileged minority over a weak, venal common mass. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/56 "2012-11-26T14:54:03Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Batman doesn’t rule the city, nor does he seek to. He doesn’t even seek to personally punish the criminals he catches, instead turning them over to the police. Being an extra-legal vigilante doesn’t make him a facsist. Well, in the latest one, a scheming villain convinces a mob of easily-manipulate resentful losers to rise up, take over the city by force, and start having show trials (and real executions) of anyone who’s seen as too rich and obnoxious. The democratically-elected city and national governments are helpless, so two strong men – one military (Commissioner Gordon) and one industrialist (Wayne/Batman) – ignore the law and, using the power and resources of a private business mega-conglomerate, successfully fight back and save the helpless populace. And of course, the strong men don’t abuse their power; they only use it for the good of all. How much more of an argument for fascism can a movie possibly be? I mean, if the movie had Batman going on to rule the city with an iron fist and violently-enforced cult of personality, then it would be an _anti_-fascist movie, wouldn’t it? Really, I think every standard superhero movie is fascist at heart : they say that us people, even working together, can’t solve our problems. We need a strong man who is above the law to come and save us from the Anarchist/Communist/Eastasia menace. And that includes super-cop/super-spy movies, too. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/57 "2012-11-26T14:54:07Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > To give the Devil his due, _Birth of a Nation_ tells a rather uplifting story _ **IF** _ you accept the premises it takes for granted:[ul] > [li]that [del]African-Americans[/del] “Negros” are a race of imbecilic hominids, only distinguishable from the apes by a rudimentary power of speech, and incapable of existing in civilization except under the guidance of white masters- either their kindly southern owners, or the demagogic Yankees.[/li][li]That the Civil War was due to the scheming of the emerging northern “money power”, which used some progressive fanatics’ ranting about slavery as an excuse for conquest.[/li][li]That having disenfranchised the former rebels, the Yankees set up corrupt puppet governments of carpetbaggers and scalawags that looted the South; and used the Negros as their Janissaries, “payed” in permission to loot and rape.[/li][li]And that at last, a heroic resistance arose and liberated the people\* of the South from oppression.[/li][/ul] > \*whites of course; negros don’t count. In fact the entire Southron attitude makes perfect sense given a single premise: that Africans aren’t human beings, at least not in the same sense whites are. Making it all the stranger that DW Griffith’s next film was [Intolerance](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intolerance_(film)), about the harm done by man’s intolerance of those who are different from himself, throughout the ages. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/58 "2012-11-26T15:14:11Z")
I watched _“The Adventures of Robin Hood”_ (the one with Errol Flynn) over the weekend and this OP came to mind. While it is true that Robin’s Merry Men were more democratic than Prince John and the other bad guys, they were far from democratic. At the end especially, it was clear there was definitely a caste system flowing downwards from Richard the Lion Hearted to Sir Robin, etc. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/59 "2012-11-26T16:36:51Z")
> [@DxZero](#): > > Not the I disagree with you (I might), but what specifically about it is anti-democratic? It is anti-interventionist for sure, but the concept of democracy isn’t really taken to task. Shows democracy as being beholden to corporte interests. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/60 "2012-11-26T16:47:37Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Shows democracy as being beholden to corporte interests. That can also be seen as being pro-democracy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641.md?page=4)