# Films that are anti-democracy **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 20, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641 "2012-11-20T20:15:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/61 "2012-11-26T17:24:47Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > The democratically-elected city and national governments are helpless, so two strong men – one military (Commissioner Gordon) and one industrialist (Wayne/Batman) – ignore the law and, using the power and resources of a private business mega-conglomerate, successfully fight back and save the helpless populace. There’s a problem with your logic there. First off, how do Gordon and Wayne “ignore the law?'” What law are they ignoring? Gordon is a police officer, after all. I didn’t see him break any laws in his fight against Bane. Also, they are fighting to RESTORE a democratically elected government, NOT to put themselves in charge. You seem to ignore that fact. ---
**Author:** ![merrick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@merrick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/merrick)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/62 "2012-11-26T21:54:24Z")
If you take “democracy” literally, as meaning “government should be answerable to the people” rather than “government should conform to established practice/liberal values/the American Constitution/whatever”, the challenge would be to find a film that’s \*pro-\*democracy. Most films that touch on the issue end up suggesting at least one of: a) Constitutional government is petty, rule-bound, hopelessly slow-moving and incapable of adapting rapidly to changing conditions. In a crisis, heroes need to Tear Up The Rule Book and Do What’s Right. b) Any politicians who aren’t stooges of corporate interests, Big Media or The Man in general are probably venal, self-interested, completely incompetent or flat-out crazy. “Democratic government” is a conspiracy of rich men in suits. If the Good Guys want Real Change, they aren’t going to get it through the ballot box. c) The masses are stupid/greedy/ignorant/bigoted and the people they vote for are worse. Heroes need to Stand Up To Society and make it clear that no amount of votes justifies Those People in doing Those Things. Most of this, I think, is the need for films to have charismatic heroes overcoming odds. One Man against The System is easy to cheer for. The System shutting down one man is just bullying. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/63 "2012-12-05T16:55:18Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And, perhaps best of all, _Lincoln_. Yes indeed, as I mentioned in post 28. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/64 "2012-12-05T19:58:51Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > We never really learn how the Wizard government works in the _Harry Potter_ books or movies. Everyone doesn’t vote for the Minister of Magic, for instance; seems like the Wizarding world is a semi-benign oligarchy, at best. The Wizarding world, at least in Britain, is definitely undemocratic. The Minister of Magic is theoretically subordinate to the Prime Minister, but it’s clear that there’s no oversite whatsoever from the regular world, so practically speaking the Minister of Magic can do whatever he wants. The Wizengamot (ruling council) selects the Minister of Magic. I don’t remember reading anything which indicates that they’re elected. It seems like the council selects whoever they want to be in their ranks. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/65 "2012-12-06T01:20:46Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > …The Wizengamot (ruling council) selects the Minister of Magic. I don’t remember reading anything which indicates that they’re elected. It seems like the council selects whoever they want to be in their ranks. Kind of like a College of Cardinals, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641/66 "2012-12-06T10:43:34Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Well, in the latest one, a scheming villain convinces a mob of easily-manipulate resentful losers to rise up, take over the city by force, and start having show trials (and real executions) of anyone who’s seen as too rich and obnoxious. The democratically-elected city and national governments are helpless, so two strong men – one military (Commissioner Gordon) and one industrialist (Wayne/Batman) – ignore the law and, using the power and resources of a private business mega-conglomerate, successfully fight back and save the helpless populace. And of course, the strong men don’t abuse their power; they only use it for the good of all. > > How much more of an argument for fascism can a movie possibly be? Bane targets One-Percenters rather than Jews, but his basic premise is that the Other are conspiring to oppress the _volk_. Batman and Gordon generally target individual people for individual crimes. In my opinion, Bane is far more of a fascist than Batman. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-that-are-anti-democracy/641641.md?page=3)