# Films Which Have The Opposite Effect On You To That Which The Makers Intended **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 11, 2008, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594 "2008-08-11T10:26:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![1stFusilier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/58956e/32.png) [@1stFusilier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1stFusilier)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594/121 "2008-08-14T15:32:34Z")
[QUOTE=shy guy] Ditto. I mean, something like 70% of the movie’s running time is devoted to Rambo killing people. We also never really spend any time with any of the victims aside from the pretty blonde girl, and the movie’s solution to violence and oppression is to literally kill everything that moves. I don’t think that happened by accident. And yes, I thought the movie was awesome. [/QUOTE] Maybe I’m giving Stallone too much credit by assuming he had ulterior motives. I thought it was a vanity project for him to show his right-on principles in a clever ‘show and tell’ way rather than preaching. It failed abysmally obviously. Why would anyone aim purely to make a gore-fest? Something like Scream at least has something going for it humour-wise but RamboIV was just dark dark dark with nothing redeeming about it. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2008, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594/122 "2008-08-15T02:14:36Z")
[QUOTE=Engineer Dude] _Matrix Revolutions._ I’m pretty sure you’re not supposed to be cheering and yelling “Go Machines!” by the end of it. [/QUOTE] Ah. Like you _probably_ weren’t supposed to root for the bear in [The Edge](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119051/) either? ---
**Author:** ![Noel\_Prosequi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b19c9b/32.png) [@Noel\_Prosequi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noel_Prosequi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2008, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594/123 "2008-08-15T06:26:33Z")
[QUOTE=elfkin477] **Atonement**. Unless, of course, I was _supposed_ to think it would have been a lot nicer if Briony had been drown 1/3rd through the movie. [/QUOTE] Agreed! (Spoilers follow) The utterly appalling literary conceit that her lies and sanctimony which ruined the lives of innocent young lovers could be atoned by writing a book in which they had a happy ending was infuriating. The idea that Briony in some sense “gave them” a happy ending is patent bullshit. They were dead. She gave them nothing at all. It only works (to the extent that it works at all) by the simple illusion that the false happy ending _looks_ as real as the “true” bits by virtue of the fact that it is all a movie. But the loony pointlessness of the atonement couldn’t possibly work in real life, and any attempt at it would look like the shallow, vain undertaking it was. And as for unintended reactions, I vote for a movie called _Laura_ In the 1970s, a soft core porn film maker called David Hamilton was busy making movies (and photographs) like _Bilitis_ . Lots of girls in a girls’ school looking dubiously young running about in the nude, touching each other up. “Young girl’s sexual awakening” kind of stuff. :dubious: I didn’t see it, but the posters all around the student theatre where I was at Uni pretty much said all that there was to say about it. Shot dreamily, the style managed to persuade arty types that it was Not Really Pron and was deep and meaningful. So the sequel to _Bilitis_ was _Laura_ . I got conned into going along. Ridiculous premise in which innocent young girl falls in love with a blind sculptor who, in order to sculpt her nude, has to do so by touch. When this big plot moment arrives, we are supposed to sob with the romanticism of it all. Unfortunately the whole theatre audience broke into fits of laughter, it was so silly, overblown and badly acted. Its pretentiousness was thoroughly deflated. And a good thing too. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2008, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594/124 "2008-08-15T11:14:33Z")
[QUOTE=Little Plastic Ninja] … … steals a ship to go find her. … [/QUOTE] _COMMANDEERS_ a ship. Nautical term. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2008, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594/125 "2008-08-15T13:45:58Z")
[QUOTE=muldoonthief] He didn’t commit a war crime at the American Embassy. He **was** taking fire from the mob on the ground - the state department goon destroyed the video tape that showed rioters firing from there. [/QUOTE] For my money, it was a war crime. If a small number of hostiles fire from within a large group of unarmed civilians, your response shouldn’t be to just fire through the human shields. It’s debatable. Murdering the prison in Viet Nam was a clear-cut war crime. It was kind of a muddled movie, anyway. _Billy Jack_ could give about anybody a Cartman-level hatred of hippies, or at least the hippies in that movie. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2008, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594/126 "2008-08-15T14:06:42Z")
[QUOTE=elfkin477] Ah. Like you _probably_ weren’t supposed to root for the bear in [The Edge](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119051/) either? [/QUOTE] Wait, there are people who _weren’t_ rooting for the bear in The Edge? Still a great movie though. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2008, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594/127 "2008-08-15T14:07:10Z")
[QUOTE=Laughing Lagomorph] _COMMANDEERS_ a ship. Nautical term. [/QUOTE] You’re right, it was late, I was tired. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2008, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594/128 "2008-08-15T14:30:40Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin] For my money, it was a war crime. If a small number of hostiles fire from within a large group of unarmed civilians, your response shouldn’t be to just fire through the human shields. It’s debatable. Murdering the prison in Viet Nam was a clear-cut war crime. It was kind of a muddled movie, anyway. [/QUOTE] I don’t want to start a debate, but in the terms of the movie, it wasn’t a crime. His entire defense was based on the fact that he was taking fire from the crowd. If he had the tape, or if the Ambassador hadn’t perjured himself, he’d have been found not guilty almost immediately. That’s why the movie was called Rules of Engagement - under his ROE he was permitted to return fire, even into a crowd. ---
**Author:** ![RoniaBorkason](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9dc877/32.png) [@RoniaBorkason](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RoniaBorkason)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594/129 "2008-08-16T01:43:57Z")
[Super Size Me](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0390521/) . This movie made me so hungry for a Big Mac. I’m hungry again just thinking of it. And I’m proud of how long the fries lasted under glass. Mmm, Big Mac and Fries. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594/130 "2008-08-16T02:54:29Z")
I’m probably going to Gitmo for this, but _Top Gun_. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594/131 "2008-08-16T03:26:42Z")
[QUOTE=shy guy] Ditto. I mean, something like 70% of the movie’s running time is devoted to Rambo killing people. [/QUOTE] You’d think people would have noticed that the previous Rambo movies were not exactly romantic comedies. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594/132 "2008-08-16T10:14:11Z")
[QUOTE=Beware of Doug] I’m probably going to Gitmo for this, but _Top Gun_. [/QUOTE] I’m sure the makers didn’t say to themselves “let’s make a film that gay teenagers can use as masturbation fodder until they can get their hands on some actual porn” but that’s what they managed to do. The irony of this burns so much as it was probably made with the intention that it would get all young males ready to enlist and do their bit for their country like proper men. A colleague of mine saw it a few years ago on TV and said to me the next day “You know, now that I’ve watched that film again I’ve realised it’s the most homoerotic film I’ve ever seen”. And this is from a straight guy! ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594/133 "2008-08-16T14:40:40Z")
[QUOTE=Little Plastic Ninja] Also, Pirates of the Caribbean. [/QUOTE] Umm… that’s totally wrong. Barbarossa and crew may have been pretty murderous, but they didn’t rape or torture her, and they did in fact keep their bargain. Barbarossa must have studied law, because he never breaks his word - in the letter. And arguably in the spirit, given that he is a pirate. Will doesn’t think Jack is trustworthy. At all. In fact, he thinks that Jack knows how to find Barbarossa (well, the other pirates, seeing as how Will doesn’t know Jack’s name). In fact, Will was capable of handling himself, just not a ship. Heck, Will actually clubs Jack over the head because though Jack was going to sell him out to the pirates! Yes, some of the characters’ actions are irrational. However, they were irrational in the context of young people panicking, and they were pretty bright in fulfilling their irrational desires. > [@](#): > > For my money, it was a war crime. If a small number of hostiles fire from within a large group of unarmed civilians, your response shouldn’t be to just fire through the human shields. It’s debatable. It’s not a crime and the reason is that generally, we want to encourage other people not to use human shields. There are groups which attempt to use large numbers of human shields, and as a general rule we pay no attention to them. If they get rewarded for this behavior, then bad things happen. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594/134 "2008-08-16T15:14:24Z")
[QUOTE=Illuminatiprimus] I’m sure the makers didn’t say to themselves “let’s make a film that gay teenagers can use as masturbation fodder until they can get their hands on some actual porn” but that’s what they managed to do. [/QUOTE] I wouldn’t be so sure. The homoeroticism is hardly a subtext - it’s pretty blatant. It’s not that the producers were secretly pushing teh gay on unsuspecting youngins so much has it’s that homoeroticism has always paid well. I mean, look at pro wrestling. The WWE is just about as gay an exhibition as you will find anywhere short of an actual Pride parade, but it never admits to it. If you deliberately designed the ultimate entertainment for the repressed homosexual, it’d be modern pro wrestling. You can’t tell me that level of sustained gayness has been going on for decades and the producers don’t realize it. I think Top Gun’s got a lot of deliberate gay in it. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594/135 "2008-08-16T21:14:52Z")
[QUOTE=Illuminatiprimus] A colleague of mine saw it a few years ago on TV and said to me the next day “You know, now that I’ve watched that film again I’ve realised it’s the most homoerotic film I’ve ever seen”. And this is from a straight guy! [/QUOTE] Rambo III is still the most homoerotic film ever made: there aren’t even any women in it, just a sweaty half-naked muscleman whose only relationships are with a fatherly older man and a fourteen year old boy {oh, and a dead goat, sex unspecified}. And the scene where he pulls a piece of shrapnel out of his side, inserts a cartridge into the resultant hole and shoots it into himself so that the flame spurts out the other side is a blatant metaphor for buttsex. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594/136 "2008-08-16T21:21:37Z")
[QUOTE=Scissorjack] Rambo III is still the most homoerotic film ever made [/QUOTE] I 'unno, _Jarhead_ rivals it. Not only is it gay, it’s actively misogynistic. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594/137 "2008-08-16T22:21:53Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] I 'unno, _Jarhead_ rivals it. Not only is it gay, it’s actively misogynistic. [/QUOTE] _Adds Jarhead to his rental queue on [lovefilm.com](http://lovefilm.com)_ ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594/138 "2008-08-16T22:22:27Z")
[QUOTE=Illuminatiprimus] A colleague of mine saw [Top Gun] a few years ago on TV and said to me the next day “You know, now that I’ve watched that film again I’ve realised it’s the most homoerotic film I’ve ever seen”. And this is from a straight guy! [/QUOTE] He obviously hasn’t seen [Leeches!](http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0339288/) ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594/139 "2008-08-16T22:47:03Z")
While travelling on a long flight. We had the sad experience of watching the movie _The Story of Us_ with Bruce Willis and Michelle Pfeiffer. From IMDB: > [@IMDB](#): > > Two jilted lovers spend fifteen years of marriage together, only to find that they might no longer love each other. In this time they have two children and go through the various (dramatic and comical) events that take place in an average marriage. Now, in all fairness, we may have seen some bastardized version that was edited for in-flight viewing, but we felt the relationship portrayed was _not working at all_, and really, these two people needed to get divorced. I’m gonna spoil the end, it got only a 29% fresh rating and is a totally forgettable movie, so I doubt anyone would care. It’s really not worthy of a spoiler box because it’s insipid Hollywood date-movie fodder so you already _know_ how it will end without even seeing a second of it, but I’ll give a little space just in case… . . . . The happy ending is appalling. The big “crisis communication and emotional climax wherein the characters bare all and really _emote_ and say how they _really_ feel” gave us a laundry list of truly crappy reasons to stay together that culminated with Michelle Pfeiffer basically saying: “I love the person you _used to be_. And you’re so good with the kids, we should stay together.” We were actually offended/horrified by the “happy ending”, and both said “That’s terrible!” in unison at the end of the final scene because sticking together was the most piss poor decision those two could have possibly made. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594/140 "2008-08-16T23:35:45Z")
[QUOTE=Max Torque] Okay, further information needs to be given, since you say you haven’t seen the movie: the videotape that the reporter receives, which shows David Gale planting fake evidence to prove his guilt, arrives by mail at the reporter’s office several days _after_ Gale’s execution. She (played by Kate Winslet) didn’t have the tape prior to his death. The tape she discovers prior to the execution shows the suicide, but doesn’t have Gale on it at all. She tries to use that tape to halt his execution, but oh-so-dramatically just can’t quite make it there due to a broken-down car. [/QUOTE] Right, and I agree with your original assessment that David Gale didn’t prove anything by being executed, and what he really did was criminal. If the movie was trying to convince the viewers that the death penalty was flawed, then it failed on its own merit. But, in the movie since only Kate Winslet has the “real” tape, as far as the public knows, the state of Texas just executed an innocent man and will soon be demanding the abolition of the death penalty. I thought the movie just told how a man with a cause twisted the system and tossed away his life in the process. I didn’t get the impression that the movie makers themselves wanted to promote an anti-DP message.. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/films-which-have-the-opposite-effect-on-you-to-that-which-the-makers-intended/459594.md?page=8)