# Finally, an intellectual blood sport -- chess boxing **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 17, 2008, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-an-intellectual-blood-sport-chess-boxing/456785 "2008-07-17T01:55:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-an-intellectual-blood-sport-chess-boxing/456785/21 "2008-07-18T08:32:51Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] Not when Lennox Lewis was champion. He is a phenomenal chess player with a rating of about 2000. [/QUOTE] What is your cite for this? Lennox is not on the [English Chess federation list](http://grading.bcfservices.org.uk/getplayers.php?players=lewis&inactive=1), nor on the [World Chess Federation list](http://ratings.fide.com/seek.phtml?idcode=&name=lewis%2C+lennox&offset=0). I have never heard of him entering a tournament, though an English chess magazine reported he liked to play against his computer. 2000 is a county strength English player. Jolly good, but not phenomenal (except for a boxer! :eek: ) ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-an-intellectual-blood-sport-chess-boxing/456785/22 "2008-07-18T08:38:12Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Hmm… Wikipedia gives two different formulae for converting ECF gradings[sup]\*[/sup] to Elo, on either of which Lennox would beat me though not by much. I’m guessing **glee** (who’s considerably better than me) could handle Lennox though. [sup]\*[/sup]At the last count I was ECF graded about 125, but I’ve never been Elo-rated. [/QUOTE] The main problem with converting ELO ratings is that different countries use slightly different systems. (The USCF once gave bonus rating points for playing more games. :eek: ) 2000 ELO is about 175 ECF, which would give an expectation of beating a 125 10-0. My ratings are around 2300 / 210, so I would expect to beat a 175 by about 8.5-1.5. However, as posted, I doubt Lennox has any rating. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-an-intellectual-blood-sport-chess-boxing/456785/23 "2008-07-18T08:45:04Z")
[QUOTE=pravnik] Drs. Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko are supposedly no slouches, either. Vitali is buddies with former world champion Vladimir Kramnik and plays with him regulalry, and he once lost a respectable game to Deep Fritz. [/QUOTE] Have you got a cite for this? I found that the Klitschko brothers may well be friends with Kramnik, but that one has lost over a hundred gasmes to Fritz and the other was only offered a draw when he was losing: > **[Fritz's strongest opponents](https://en.chessbase.com/post/fritz-s-strongest-opponents)** > > Not Vladimir Kramnik, or even Garry Kasparov or Vishy Anand. Last week Fritz faced 490 pounds of brawn – world champion boxers Vitali and Vladimir Klitschkos. Both hat PhDs in Sports and Philosophy and are great chess fans. The Klitschkos wanted to... ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-an-intellectual-blood-sport-chess-boxing/456785/24 "2008-07-18T08:47:56Z")
[QUOTE=villa] There used to be, and may well still be, a chess tournament in a London pub where 8 games of 10-minutes per player chess were played. In between games was a 10 minute break. Each player had to drink a pint during each game, and if they won they had to drink a pint in the gap in between games. So to go 8-0, one would have to drink 15 pints. I can’t help but imagine that a few of those matches decended to chess boxing. [/QUOTE] There were such chess / drinking tournaments at Cambridge University a while back and the Kings Head team who play in the National League are a pub team. But it’s pretty rare. Nowadays chess players are looking at poker, which has higher income possibilities! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-an-intellectual-blood-sport-chess-boxing/456785/25 "2008-07-18T11:03:09Z")
[QUOTE=glee] The main problem with converting ELO ratings is that different countries use slightly different systems. (The USCF once gave bonus rating points for playing more games. :eek: ) 2000 ELO is about 175 ECF, which would give an expectation of beating a 125 10-0. My ratings are around 2300 / 210, so I would expect to beat a 175 by about 8.5-1.5. However, as posted, I doubt Lennox has any rating. [/QUOTE] I should do my sums! Yes, I wouldn’t expect even to get a draw off a 175-graded player. /anxious not to appear boastful ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-an-intellectual-blood-sport-chess-boxing/456785/26 "2008-07-18T16:49:59Z")
[QUOTE=glee] There were such chess / drinking tournaments at Cambridge University a while back and the Kings Head team who play in the National League are a pub team. [/QUOTE] I didn’t think Cambridge students knew either what chess was or what a pint looked like. Fuckin’ Tabs. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2008, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-an-intellectual-blood-sport-chess-boxing/456785/27 "2008-07-18T18:30:43Z")
[QUOTE=glee] Have you got a cite for this? I found that the Klitschko brothers may well be friends with Kramnik, but that one has lost over a hundred gasmes to Fritz and the other was only offered a draw when he was losing: > **[Fritz's strongest opponents](https://en.chessbase.com/post/fritz-s-strongest-opponents)** > > Not Vladimir Kramnik, or even Garry Kasparov or Vishy Anand. Last week Fritz faced 490 pounds of brawn – world champion boxers Vitali and Vladimir Klitschkos. Both hat PhDs in Sports and Philosophy and are great chess fans. The Klitschkos wanted to... [/QUOTE] To turn a phrase, your post is my cite. 😉 From your link: > [@](#): > > From the boxing ring to the chess board > Last Friday these two giants of the boxing world visited the ChessBase office in Hamburg. The reason they give on their web site is that, a day before the final round of the $1 million Man vs Machine event in Bahrain their friend chess world champion Vladimir Kramnik enlisted their help to wear down the machine. So they visited the Hamburg offices of Chessbase for a pre-bout sparring with Fritz. Playing on the Fritz Server against the program in Bahrain, Vitali proved that his “Punching Professor” tag is more than just a stage name! He almost took the machine over the full distance. “It may have been a points decision for Deep Fritz, but the computer at least had its pride dented.” So Vitali “once lost a respectable game to Deep Fritz.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2008, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-an-intellectual-blood-sport-chess-boxing/456785/28 "2008-07-19T08:11:43Z")
[QUOTE=Sanity Challenged] Dungeons & Dragons / Elimidate [/QUOTE] A bit redundant, wot? I’d like to see an updated version of _Archon_, myself. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2008, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-an-intellectual-blood-sport-chess-boxing/456785/29 "2008-07-19T11:07:43Z")
[QUOTE=villa] I didn’t think Cambridge students knew either what chess was or what a pint looked like. Fuckin’ Tabs. [/QUOTE] I say! Not the colonial version! [This Cambridge University](http://www.cam.ac.uk/) , founded in 1209. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2008, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-an-intellectual-blood-sport-chess-boxing/456785/30 "2008-07-19T11:16:38Z")
[QUOTE=pravnik] To turn a phrase, your post is my cite. 😉 From your link: " Playing on the Fritz Server against the program in Bahrain, Vitali proved that his “Punching Professor” tag is more than just a stage name! He almost took the machine over the full distance. “It may have been a points decision for Deep Fritz, but the computer at least had its pride dented.” " So Vitali “once lost a respectable game to Deep Fritz.” [/QUOTE] I’m confident that’s just a publicity blurb. What on earth is ‘the full distance’ in chess? 20 moves? 40 moves? 100 moves? That’s a boxing term. Also they didn’t publish the game (a real giveaway 😉 ) Turning back to Lennox Lewis, a GM friend of mine tells me he met Lewis once. A pleasant chap - who wasn’t sure of the en passant rule. So definitely not a ‘2000’ player! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2008, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-an-intellectual-blood-sport-chess-boxing/456785/31 "2008-07-19T13:31:54Z")
[QUOTE=glee] I’m confident that’s just a publicity blurb. What on earth is ‘the full distance’ in chess? 20 moves? 40 moves? 100 moves? That’s a boxing term. Also they didn’t publish the game (a real giveaway 😉 ) Turning back to Lennox Lewis, a GM friend of mine tells me he met Lewis once. A pleasant chap - who wasn’t sure of the en passant rule. So definitely not a ‘2000’ player! [/QUOTE] Well, but who was what’s-his-face who had to ask the referee if it was legal to castle if his rook was attacked? World Championship contender, wasn’t he? It’s in _The Complete Chess Addict_, which I know you’ve read and enjoyed. Either Korchnoi or somebody else. Yes, I know. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2008, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-an-intellectual-blood-sport-chess-boxing/456785/32 "2008-07-19T13:51:01Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Well, but who was what’s-his-face who had to ask the referee if it was legal to castle if his rook was attacked? World Championship contender, wasn’t he? It’s in _The Complete Chess Addict_, which I know you’ve read and enjoyed. Either Korchnoi or somebody else. Yes, I know. [/QUOTE] Korchnoi indeed. (I think the b1 square was attacked, rather than the rook.) Nevertheless I have many games by Korchnoi to prove his eminence. 🙂 Nothing published by Lewis or by either Klitschko… Also I should hqve highlighted this from the publicity blurb about the brothers: ‘chess world champion Vladimir Kramnik enlisted their help to wear down the machine’ Yeah. Right. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2008, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-an-intellectual-blood-sport-chess-boxing/456785/33 "2008-07-20T21:03:11Z")
[QUOTE=glee] I say! Not the colonial version! [This Cambridge University](http://www.cam.ac.uk/) , founded in 1209. [/QUOTE] I know which one you meant. It’s the place to go when one gets turned down by [a genuinely old university](http://www.ox.ac.uk/) . ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-an-intellectual-blood-sport-chess-boxing/456785/34 "2008-07-21T15:11:04Z")
[QUOTE=glee] I’m confident that’s just a publicity blurb. What on earth is ‘the full distance’ in chess? 20 moves? 40 moves? 100 moves? That’s a boxing term. Also they didn’t publish the game (a real giveaway 😉 ) [/QUOTE] I think we’re just working with different definitions of “repectable loss:” you, the competitive tournament chess player with multiple national championships, and me, the guy having trouble beating the monkey. To me, being offered a draw while in a losing position by a computer is impressive, as is lasting more than five or six moves. I never claimed that they were out burning up the chess circuit or giving grandmasters fits, I’m just saying the brothers Klitschko are chess enthusiasts, are interested in the chess world, and would probably have an advantage over the average boxer in chess, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-an-intellectual-blood-sport-chess-boxing/456785/35 "2008-07-21T20:15:39Z")
[QUOTE=pravnik] I think we’re just working with different definitions of “repectable loss:” you, the competitive tournament chess player with multiple national championships, and me, the guy having trouble beating the monkey. [/QUOTE] Have you considered por… Eh, never mind. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-an-intellectual-blood-sport-chess-boxing/456785/36 "2008-07-21T20:35:19Z")
Poor choice of words there, I suppose. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-an-intellectual-blood-sport-chess-boxing/456785/37 "2008-07-22T16:28:51Z")
[QUOTE=pravnik] I think we’re just working with different definitions of “repectable loss:” you, the competitive tournament chess player with multiple national championships, and me, the guy having trouble beating the monkey. To me, being offered a draw while in a losing position by a computer is impressive, as is lasting more than five or six moves. I never claimed that they were out burning up the chess circuit or giving grandmasters fits, I’m just saying the brothers Klitschko are chess enthusiasts, are interested in the chess world, and would probably have an advantage over the average boxer in chess, that’s all. [/QUOTE] Fair enough. 🙂 I would add that the computer didn’t offer the draw (it’s not programmed to), but that the operator saved him purely for publicity purposes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-an-intellectual-blood-sport-chess-boxing/456785.md?page=1)