# Finally, I'm not ashamed of my Harvard connection
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** trump
**Created:** [April 15, 2025, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063 "2025-04-15T09:05:29Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2025, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063/21 "2025-04-17T02:50:16Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#):
>
> I know that Trump hates the ivies, but they have a lot of money and good lawyers.
And even rich Republican donors often have kids who go to school there. They are not going to be happy if Daddy’s friends are sabotaging their resume-building and overall college experience.
> [@mozchron](#):
>
> And I have news for you - faculty hiring and retention is already based on merit. Considerable merit.
Word. I participate in faculty searches almost every year, and no applicant even gets within shouting distance of the candidate shortlist unless they are exceptionally well qualified.
Once we’ve identified a bunch of exceptionally well qualified candidates, we consider, among many other things, whether they’d also bring in experience that would enhance our diversity and representation as an institution. There’s nothing “anti-merit” about that.
You may want your prospective student applicants to have good grades and test scores, but in the last analysis, you don’t admit grades and test scores, you admit people. You may want your faculty applicants to have excellent resumes and research records, but in the last analysis, you don’t hire resumes and research records, you hire people. There’s no such thing as a purely meritocratic system for evaluating human beings.
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### Author:  [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2025, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063/22 "2025-04-18T00:42:32Z")
Well now it’s getting real
> **[IRS reportedly planning to revoke Harvard’s tax-exempt status](https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/apr/17/harvard-tax-exempt-status-trump-irs)**
>
> Probably illegal move against US’s richest university is latest in Trump’s attack on independence of higher education
- Threatens to repeal Harvard’s tax exempt status.
- Threatens to basically prevent Harvard from sponsoring student visas.
I don’t know…this is a moment when Harvard grads in particular need to demonstrate the value of their Ivy League education. I assume that Harvard produces a much larger share per capita of the elites in society. If their super-wealthy and powerful alumni don’t come to Harvard’s defense, and frankly if all Ivy League alumni don’t, then what is the real value of an Ivy League degree?
Not much, IMO.
Wealth. Power. Influence. Thought-leadership. Totally meaningless without values behind them.
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### Author:  [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2025, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063/23 "2025-04-18T01:03:27Z")
> [@natureboy](#):
>
> I assume that Harvard produces a much larger share per capita of the elites in society. If their super-wealthy and powerful alumni don’t come to Harvard’s defense, and frankly if all Ivy League alumni don’t, then what is the real value of an Ivy League degree?
I imagine that many of us Harvard grads, wealthy and powerful or not (I am neither), will stand with Harvard. I just received a request for a donation. Nothing unusual about that - alma maters always chase down their alums. Generally I don’t donate to Harvard - there are a lot of causes that need my money more. But I will give this time, because I want Harvard to be able to report a surge in donations.
I’m not sure I can parse your comments correctly, but it seems like you might be saying that the only point of an Ivy League degree is to lead to wealth, power, and elitism.
That’s far from true. A good education can stimulate graduates to develop compassionate, intelligent public policy; to do research that will treat terrible diseases; to write music and literature that inspire and inform; to thoughtfully teach others.
This is not to say that you can’t get a good education anywhere but the Ivies. Of course you can. But whatever their flaws, on the whole I would say that the Ivies do a great job of educating people. Sure, some graduates are primarily interested in the prestige part of the degree. But a lot of Ivy League graduates do actually have a passion for whatever they focused their studies on.
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### Author:  [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2025, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063/24 "2025-04-18T01:22:48Z")
If anyone cares, [yes, there was a historical precedent during McCarthyism](https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1965/6/17/the-university-in-the-mccarthy-era/), and Harvard’s response was a not admirable support of the Fifth Amendment in its narrowest possible terms: it’s only protection against self-incrimination, not to be employed as non-compliance against witch-hunting demagogues. I hope this time around is better.
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### Author:  [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2025, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063/25 "2025-04-18T01:26:43Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#):
>
> it seems like you might be saying that the only point of an Ivy League degree is to lead to wealth, power, and elitism.
It’s an elitist network. I am obviously generalizing here, but the networks among the Ivy League institutions are more influential than those elsewhere. I suppose there are other non-Ivy League schools we could throw in that bucket, like Georgetown, Stanford, Duke, etc. I guess I am saying that in a network of elite students, many of whom come from elite backgrounds, it’s not surprising that they disproportionately end up in elite law firms, as members of Congress, as members of Boards, CEOs of companiesm, and so forth. Nothing wrong with that, I guess, but what kind of world were they creating? A hyper-capitalized, hyper-commercialized, hyper-competitive world that led us to where we are now.
Harvard is known for Mark Zuckerberg, Cheryl Sandberg, George W Bush, Bill Gates (he dropped out, I guess). I suppose there’s Barack and Michelle Obama and Al Gore and Tommy Lee Jones but they’re not leading any movements. They’re not the faces of anti-fascism. They’re going to stay out of sight and watch the country fade into darkness. Power. Wealth. Fame. But no real values they’d defend.
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### Author:  [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2025, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063/26 "2025-04-18T01:29:43Z")
I guess I’m not sure what you think Harvard grads ought to be doing. Most of us aren’t hugely influential, ya know.
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### Author:  [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2025, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063/27 "2025-04-18T01:35:39Z")
I did just get invited to a trivia-event fundraiser organized by a group of Harvard alum. But the group it’s supporting is trying to protect democracy in general, and elect Democrats. It’s not primarily organized to help Harvard.
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### Author:  [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2025, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063/28 "2025-04-18T04:20:47Z")
Don’t forget. Not only are these goobers all completely unqualified, they get bonus points for being the complete opposite of what is required. For example: worm brain the science allergic vaccine denier head of all things medical, tulsy gabbard practcally spying/cheering for a foreign nation head of DHS. Someone trying to be ironic couldn’t have chosen, “better.”
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### Author:  [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2025, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063/29 "2025-04-18T04:49:51Z")
Ah - so I did read your comment correctly. I wasn’t sure. Thank you for commenting.
So - nothing good except elitism _ever_ comes out of an Ivy League education?
As much as I am at best ambivalent about Harvard (I would not have started this thread otherwise), I think anyone who claims that there is zero value (excluding privelege) to an excellent education that just happens to be obtained from an Ivy League school is … misguided.
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### Author:  [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2025, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063/30 "2025-04-18T06:10:02Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#):
>
> So - nothing good except elitism _ever_ comes out of an Ivy League education?
And, clearly, if we close all of those Ivy League schools then elitism will disappear in a puff of . . . illogical nonsense!
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### Author:  [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2025, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063/31 "2025-04-18T06:19:50Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#):
>
> Harvard is, at least for the moment, fighting back against the fascist Trump regime. At last, I am proud to admit my Harvard associations.
My GF went to Columbia and has always (rightfully I think) been proud of that (not least that she had a difficult road getting there). Columbia has capitulated to Trump and she is now deeply disappointed in and ashamed of her alma mater.
Kudos to Harvard. I hope they keep up the resistance. Trump recently tried turning the screws on Harvard even tighter. An interesting battle. I hope Harvard perseveres. More, I hope their alumni throw their support to the school and not Trump.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2025, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063/32 "2025-04-18T12:44:04Z")
The point is that, completely independently of whether Harvard and the Ivies actually provide a superior education, or whether their alumns deserve rewards, or whatever, the fact is that graduates of Harvard and the other Ivies are overrepresented in positions of power, and if some of those people in positions of power see their almae matres being attacked, it might motivate them to use the power they have to fight back.
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### Author:  [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2025, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063/33 "2025-04-18T13:39:05Z")
That’s certainly true. And I’m hopeful.
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### Author:  [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2025, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063/34 "2025-04-18T14:17:21Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#):
>
> But I will give this time, because I want Harvard to be able to report a surge in donations.
I heard on the radio news this morning that they’ve reported a surge in donations.
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### Author:  [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2025, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063/35 "2025-04-19T09:27:20Z")
> [@Procrustus](#):
>
> I heard on the radio news this morning that they’ve reported a surge in donations.
Good.
As much as I am willing to bet many Harvard alumni are Trump voters I think they are completely unwilling to let Trump undo the power being a Harvard grad grants them. Wrecking Harvard is not something they will accept. It undermines a pillar of what helped get them to where they opens many opportunities.
At least, I hope they will not accept it. One of the few “exports” the US still has is its higher education system. People from around the world try very hard to get into these schools and will spend a lot of money for that education. If Trump kills that I am not sure what is really left.
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### Author:  [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2025, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063/36 "2025-04-19T13:10:48Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#):
>
> As much as I am willing to bet many Harvard alumni are Trump voters
You’d bet wrong. I mean, there are a lot of Harvard grads, and no doubt many voted for both sides. But Harvard is a very liberal place, at least among grads in my general cohort (mid 80s.) That’s a major reason why the Republicans don’t like it. Liberal ivory tower, and all that.
Fwiw, I’ve been surveying my graduating class every 5 years for a couple of decades (i present the results at our reunion) and those who respond (about a third of the class) are overwhelmingly Democratic voters. Like … 70% reported they are Democrats, and only 8% reported being Republicans. Even 15 years ago, before Trump, only about 13% were Republicans. Recent political developments drove about 5% of them from the Republican party to the Democratic party. In the recent election, 89% preferred Biden and 4% preferred Trump.
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### Author:  [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2025, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063/37 "2025-04-19T13:17:20Z")
That’s great news IMO!
I work in the trading world and the likes of Jamie Dimon (Harvard MBA) or Ken Griffin (Harvard BA) are not what I’d call a liberal. Most in my industry are not.
And they wield a massive amount of power.
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### Author:  [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2025, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063/38 "2025-04-19T13:27:41Z")
I play bridge with a bunch of conservatives, including one who worked for the Romney campaign. With one exception, they all hate Trump. They dislike Democrats, too, but they are disturbed by Trump. And the Trump supporter has put a pro-Ukrainian political sign in his yard.
Trump ran as a populist. His base support is farmers and factory workers and service workers and small businessmen, not “the elite”.
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### Author:  [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2025, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063/39 "2025-04-19T14:00:18Z")
Sure but who are they donating to? Who are they supporting in many ways? Who are they voting for?
More, we have seen powerful law firms and media organizations and universities and tech superpowers bend the knee to Trump.
I believe you that they dislike Trump but they aren’t opposing him either.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2025, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-im-not-ashamed-of-my-harvard-connection/1017063/40 "2025-04-19T15:31:51Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#):
>
> Trump ran as a populist. His base support is farmers and factory workers and service workers and small businessmen, not “the elite”.
Not farmers; his policy towards the typical American farmer is to deport them.
He’s popular among farm cosplayers like Kristy Noem, though.
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