# Finally! Low-Carb/Atkins gets a little respect! About damn time! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2002, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488 "2002-11-19T07:39:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2002, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488/161 "2002-11-24T15:02:03Z")
This has been quite a weekend for Edlyn and me. We bought a new car yesterday (2003 Saturn Ion), and today began the Atkins diet. For breakfast, we each had 2 hard boiled egss, 2 strips of bacon, and 2 sausage patties. She had black coffee, and I had coffee with heavy cream and Splenda. (I forgot to get the decaf). We stocked up on meats (mostly beef, chicken, turkey, and pork), cheese, and low carb veggies: broccoli, green beans, bell peppers, etc. Funny, but my system is already in a mild shock. I am craving sugar. Before the diet, I drank coffee and Kool-Aid all day long, and ate a LOT of bread. The Splenda tastes close to, but not identical to processed sugar. It’s more like brown or powdered sugar. And there is a very slight aftertaste. We’ll see what happens. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2002, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488/162 "2002-11-24T16:30:23Z")
Good luck, **Lib** , I hope it works out for you. Keep us updated on how it’s going. Don’t forget to drink a gallon of water a day or thereabouts. BTW, I didn’t go decaff at all, and it didn’t seem to affect me negatively. I also continued to drink booze at the weekends, too (vodka or gin with a diet mixer at first, but recently I’ve allowed myself beer, lovely beer). ---
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2002, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488/163 "2002-11-24T16:56:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*This has been quite a weekend for Edlyn and me. We bought a new car yesterday (2003 Saturn Ion), and today began the Atkins diet. For breakfast, we each had 2 hard boiled egss, 2 strips of bacon, and 2 sausage patties. She had black coffee, and I had coffee with heavy cream and Splenda. (I forgot to get the decaf). > > We stocked up on meats (mostly beef, chicken, turkey, and pork), cheese, and low carb veggies: broccoli, green beans, bell peppers, etc. > > Funny, but my system is already in a mild shock. I am craving sugar. Before the diet, I drank coffee and Kool-Aid all day long, and ate a LOT of bread. The Splenda tastes close to, but not identical to processed sugar. It’s more like brown or powdered sugar. And there is a very slight aftertaste. > > We’ll see what happens. \*\* Libertarian dont worry. Right now the carb crave just psycological…you cant have it so you want it.Perfectly natural. Thats why it takes about 2 weeks to finally convince your body that the sugar party is over and its time to reset your body to its properly preforming best.Believe it or not some of the breakfast sausages have a higher percentage of carbs than most meat so read the labels carefully . there are many “hidden sources”. I ve been on the diet for 3 years and its wonderful. I never worried about the restricting your caffine part and i always lost weight just fine so if you like your caffiene i wouldnt get too hung up about it. Stick with it. If you can hang tough for like 2 weeks youll drop off like 10 lbs suddenbly in just a few days…may be water or whatever but 10lbs was 10 lbs in my book. So dont freak if it doesnt happen right away give it time and patience. I drank TONS of diet sodas but DO try the atkins or the “house” brand of “chochlate” bars cause they taste sweet and really take off the edge. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2002, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488/164 "2002-11-24T17:17:53Z")
Good to hear about the caffeine, thanks. The sausage label said 0 carbs. Jimmy Dean mild. ---
**Author:** ![porcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac91a4/32.png) [@porcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porcupine)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2002, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488/165 "2002-11-25T16:59:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Winkie \* > \*\*Meat and eggs are lower in potassium than fruits and vegetables. \*\* Generally this is true, but many types of fish and also things like avocado (all allowed on Atkins) are also fairly high in potassium: Per 100 grams (about 4 oz) canned tuna - 207 mg smoked salmon - 175 mg fresh avocado - 599 mg My source is the USDA National Nutrient Database [http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/cgi-bin/nut\_search.pl](http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/cgi-bin/nut_search.pl) ---
**Author:** ![porcupine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac91a4/32.png) [@porcupine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porcupine)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2002, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488/166 "2002-11-25T17:00:55Z")
Actually, 1 oz = 28.35 grams, so 100 grams is betwen 3 and 4 oz. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2002, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488/167 "2002-11-25T21:22:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*This has been quite a weekend for Edlyn and me. We bought a new car yesterday (2003 Saturn Ion), and today began the Atkins diet. For breakfast, we each had 2 hard boiled egss, 2 strips of bacon, and 2 sausage patties. She had black coffee, and I had coffee with heavy cream and Splenda. (I forgot to get the decaf). > > We stocked up on meats (mostly beef, chicken, turkey, and pork), cheese, and low carb veggies: broccoli, green beans, bell peppers, etc. > > Funny, but my system is already in a mild shock. I am craving sugar. Before the diet, I drank coffee and Kool-Aid all day long, and ate a LOT of bread. The Splenda tastes close to, but not identical to processed sugar. It’s more like brown or powdered sugar. And there is a very slight aftertaste. > > We’ll see what happens. \*\* Assuming you haven’t, I fully recommend reading at least one book (Atkin’s is good) before you jump off the deep end. People have asked me what I did to lose weight, then tried to mimic me without reading about how it all works and what you’re supposed to do, and seemed to fail out of ignorance. I read a few books before I even started, just to make sure I knew exactly what I was trying to do physically, and how to do it perfectly. Btw, what a tiny breakfast. 🙂 I usually had at least 10 sausage links and bacon strips for breakfast. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2002, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488/168 "2002-11-25T22:27:47Z")
I hate it when these arguments get into what constitutes a “natural” diet. Unless you’re not cooking your food, you’re not eating a natural diet – and if you’ve been around rawfoodists, you probably know they’re not the healthiest looking trippers around. So let’s dispense with the “natural” part of the diet, okay? Myself, I tend to go by what I consider mainstream science. I’m aware that’s in transition (as science is vexingly wont to be), and so I’m following with interest the scientific studies of Atkins and other diets. And I’m convinced that, at least in the short term, Atkins-style diets are helping people lose weight. I’m not at all convinced that they’re healthful in the long term. A few years ago, I started watching my diet seriously, focusing on lowering fat and simple carbohydrates and raising fiber. As a consequence, I eat lots of legumes (I make a damn fine hummus), a fair amount of fish, lots of whole-wheat toast and brown rice, and almost as many veggies and fruits as the ADA recommends. I’ve stabilised my weight at about 125 lbs and feel good. I do think the American Dietetic Association’s Web site, [www.eatright.org](http://www.eatright.org), is a reliable site, and I encourage folks to look at it. [Here’s what they say in general about high-protein, low-carb diets](http://www.eatright.org/nfs/nfs0200b.html) (note that they’re talking about a broad array of diets, and their characterization will not fully apply to any specific diet): > [@](#): > > The popular high-protein, low-carbohydrate diets are based on the idea that carbohydrates are bad, that many people are “allergic” to them or are insulin-resistant, and therefore gain weight when they eat them. The truth is that people are eating more total calories and getting less physical activity, and that is the real reason they are gaining weight. These high-protein, low-carbohydrate diets tend to be low in calcium and fiber, as well as healthy phytochemicals (plant chemicals). Some authors of these fad diets advise taking vitamin-mineral supplements to replace lost nutrients. However, supplements should “bridge the gap” in healthy eating and not be used as a replacement for nutrient-rich foods. > > Also, the authors of high-protein, low-carbohydrate diets advocate taking advantage of ketosis to accelerate weight loss. Ketosis is an abnormal body process that occurs during starvation due to lack of carbohydrate. Ketosis can cause fatigue, constipation, nausea, and vomiting. Potential long-term side effects of ketosis include heart disease, bone loss, and kidney damage. I know this isn’t a study, but in general, if I lack the scientific expertise to understand a concept, I’m willing to place my bets with current mainstream science. And CMS seems to say that a diet low in fat and simple carbohydrates, high in vegetables, legumes, and complex carbohydrates, and with a variety of minimally-processed foods is going to be optimal. It helps, of course, that I’ve been some version of vegetarian for over half my life, and so I don’t really crave meats (salmon excepted – mmmmmm, salmon!) I do think that if you compare the recommended ADA diet to the Atkins diet, the ADA diet will perform admirably. But if folks are unwilling to move to the ADA diet, then Atkins might be a good second choice. I remain skeptical, however, about the long-term implications. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488/169 "2002-11-26T00:15:55Z")
I still want to know what your doctors say about this diet. Because you DID consult a doctor before using it, right? ---
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488/170 "2002-11-26T00:25:35Z")
Guinastasia, the problem with asking doctors about this diet is that they dont know any more about it than anyone else does. The real studies are just being done now. It SEEMS to work and doesnt SEEM to have many negative side effects although there are some. But doctors dont have some inate godlike knowledge on this issue.They have to go by studies etc just like the rest of us do and the information simply does not exist at this time to really say anything diffinitive one way or the other. Thats why the article posted in the OP is being run. Because its new information from studies that are just now being done. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488/171 "2002-11-26T01:00:19Z")
True, but they do know more about the human body than the average joe, one would think. I always understood that one is supposed to consult a doctor before beginning any radical diet or what have you. And to make sure it won’t interfere with any existing conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488/172 "2002-11-26T02:48:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*I still want to know what your doctors say about this diet. Because you DID consult a doctor before using it, right? \*\* I had already linked earlier to what one doctor thought of the diet. [Here](http://www.atkinsdietalert.org/consumer.html) is what some others think. The problem, of course, is that you will find doctors on both sides of the issue, just as you will find non-doctors on both sides (see the link by **Epimetheus** for a pro-low-carb advocate, for example). ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488/173 "2002-11-26T03:55:50Z")
Okay, here’s my “beef” (pun!) with Atkins and other “imbalanced” diets: it focuses on your weight and not your health. The scale is a poor indicator of health. Because we all know perfectly healthy people who are overweight just as we all know people who look great in their clothes but who eat M&M’s for dinner. Do you really think that eating bacon and cheeseburgers while foregoing apples and oranges will help your body become a cancer-fighting machine? There’s evidence that a diet rich in antioxidants and vitamins and minerals can help boost your immunity. Can a diet that consists mainly of sausage links and bacon make that claim? I think not. Bottom line: having your jeans look cuter on your ass should be a welcome side effect of your diet, not the \*primary goal/i] of your diet. The primary goal should be your long-term _health_. And for most of us, that means moderate and varied diet and exercise. Salud. ---
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488/174 "2002-11-26T04:12:59Z")
Pundit, this diet is for people who for reasons of body chemistry CANT just simply eat moderatly and exercise and somehow thier weight problems will be solved. Losing weight IS a long term health benefit as anyone can attest. Just because its not proven to fight cancer doesnt remove the other health benefits. Lower colesteral, lower blood pressure and less stress on your heart in general because its not pumping blood thru those extra thosands of miles of capilaries.\are just a few benefits that come to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488/175 "2002-11-26T08:33:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PunditLisa \* > \*\*Okay, here’s my “beef” (pun!) with Atkins and other “imbalanced” diets: it focuses on your weight and not your health. \*\* Absolutely untrue, and your understanding of the diet is obviously very flawed. Atkins is a cardiologist and this diet arose out of treating patients with heart disease, hello. Cripes. ---
**Author:** ![the\_great\_dalmuti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b2d939/32.png) [@the\_great\_dalmuti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_great_dalmuti)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488/176 "2002-11-26T09:26:46Z")
Atkins is a cardiologist, sure. But, first and foremost, he’s a businessman trying to make money. Is there any way to deny that? The man wrote a book, told people they can continue eating all the crap they already eat, and lose weight. This is pure gold, even better than snake oil. And of course, it should be noted that The Atkins Institute funds most of the research being done on low-carb diets. Here’s the American Heart Association’s [“American Heart Association Statement on High-Protein, Low-Carbohydrate Diet Study Presented at Scientific Sessions”](http://216.185.112.5/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3006728) which points out many problems with the study referred to in the OP. * * * > [@](#): > > Here are the American Heart Association’s concerns with the study: > > \*The study is very small, with only 120 total participants and just 60 on the high-fat, low carbohydrate diet. > > \*This is a short-term study, following participants for just 6 months. There is no evidence provided by this study that the weight loss produced could be maintained long term. > > \*There is no evidence provided by the study that the diet is effective long term in improving health. > > \*A high intake of saturated fats over time raises great concern about increased cardiovascular risk – the study did not follow participants long enough to evaluate this. > > \*This study did not actually compare the Atkins diet with the current AHA dietary recommendations. > > Bottom line, the American Heart Association says that people who want to lose weight and keep it off need to make lifestyle changes for the long term – this means regular exercise and a balanced diet,” he _ **{Robert O. Bonow, M.D., the president of the American Heart Association}** _ says. “People should not change their eating patterns based on one very small, short-term study. Instead, we hope that the public will continue to rely on the guidance of organizations such as the American Heart Association which look at all the very best evidence before formulating recommendations * * * Sounds like good advice. You can trust who want to trust. I’d rather trust the guy, or in this case the highly reputable organization, who’s not trying to sell me anything. Best, TGD ps - **Epimetheus** , calm down, friend. No one’s out to get you, and no one’s patronizing you. No need to get ornery. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488/177 "2002-11-26T12:24:50Z")
Forgive me, but barring evidence to the contrary, I don’t believe that researchers at Duke University would fudge a study simply based on who funded it. Pundit Lisa wrote: > [@](#): > > Okay, here’s my “beef” (pun!) with Atkins and other “imbalanced” diets: it focuses on your weight and not your health. The scale is a poor indicator of health. Because we all know perfectly healthy people who are overweight just as we all know people who look great in their clothes but who eat M&M’s for dinner. Dr. Eric Westman, who headed the Duke study, said: After six months, the people on the Atkins diet had lost an average of 31 pounds, compared with 20 pounds on the AHA diet, and more people stuck with the Atkins regimen. Total cholesterol fell slightly in both groups. However, those on the Atkins diet had an 11% increase in HDL, the good cholesterol, and a 49% drop in triglycerides. On the AHA diet, HDL was unchanged, and triglycerides dropped 22%. High triglycerides may raise the risk of heart disease. While the volunteers’ total amounts of LDL, the bad cholesterol, did not change much on either diet, there was evidence that it had shifted to a form that may be less likely to clog the arteries. > [@](#): > > Do you really think that eating bacon and cheeseburgers while foregoing apples and oranges will help your body become a cancer-fighting machine? There’s evidence that a diet rich in antioxidants and vitamins and minerals can help boost your immunity. Can a diet that consists mainly of sausage links and bacon make that claim? I think not. That (sort of) describes only one short phase of the diet, the Induction Phase. During it, vitamin supplements and generous amounts of water are proscribed. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488/178 "2002-11-26T15:04:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by the\_great\_dalmuti \* > \*\* > ps - **Epimetheus** , calm down, friend. No one’s out to get you, and no one’s patronizing you. No need to get ornery. \*\* I’m not sure what you mean by me getting ornery. Somebody comes in a serious debate, throws around statements without backing, and seemingly ignores my links, and points, of course when they say “I will stick to my gut feelings” I am going to roll my eyes and say something about it. 🙂 I’m not thinking anybody is out to get me, other than to debunk my points, which I am not going to get angry about, if they can, then I will conceed the point. It takes evidence and sound arguments though, not “gut feelings”. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488/179 "2002-11-26T15:45:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by the\_great\_dalmuti \* > \*\* > Here’s the American Heart Association’s [“American Heart Association Statement on High-Protein, Low-Carbohydrate Diet Study Presented at Scientific Sessions”](http://216.185.112.5/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3006728) which points out many problems with the study referred to in the OP. \*\* Thanks for that link! I think the most significant aspect of it is this: > [@](#): > > This study did not actually compare the Atkins diet with the current AHA dietary recommendations. And I think this is typical: generally, when I see people talking about how good the Atkins diet is, they compare it to the “typical American diet,” a diet rich in meats, high-fructose corn syrup, white flour, and animal fat, and poor in fiber, fresh fruit and vegetables, and complex carbohydrates. This is almost a straw-man position, IMO. We need to be comparing Atkins’ recommendations to those of other dietitians, not to McDonalds’ recommendations. Of course Atkins’ diet is healthier than McDonalds’ diet; almost every diet is. There’s another quote from that AHA page that’s worth looking at: > [@](#): > > By way of contrast with this small study, a 12-year Harvard study funded by the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute was also reported at this meeting. This study of 74,000 women showed that those who consumed more fruits and vegetables were 26 percent less likely to become obese than women who ate fewer fruits and vegetables over the same time period. “This is a much more compelling study regarding weight control, because it involved many more individuals over a much longer period,” says Bonow. Of course, this study seems to be comparing the AHA dietary recommendations to the McDonalds’ diet; it only tangentially relates to the Atkins diet. AHA remains more credible as a source of nutritional information than Atkins does, I think, especially since their recommendations are in line with those of the ADA and the NAS. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488/180 "2002-11-26T16:00:14Z")
😃 You talk about strawmen, and then say that McDonalds hamburgers with their ketchup and buns — let alone french fries — are tangentially related to the Atkins diet? You realize that that might influence my opinion of what you think is credible, don’t you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-low-carb-atkins-gets-a-little-respect-about-damn-time/137488.md?page=10)