# Finally, the end of for profit prisons in the USA ! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 19, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326 "2016-08-19T18:11:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326/1 "2016-08-19T18:11:41Z")
Yesterday, August 18, [the Justice Department announced that it will no longer contract with private prisons,](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/08/18/justice-department-says-it-will-end-use-of-private-prisons/?utm_term=.4e9251b98243) which currently hold thousands of federal inmates—a massive policy shift. The decison may have been influenced by TV-series like Orange Is The New Black. And by reports that the money saved is minimal, and the effects perverse. All this and more is explained in this widely shared long read on Mother Jones from last June, [Shane Bauer’s account of his four-month stint as a guard in a private prison](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/cca-private-prisons-corrections-corporation-inmates-investigation-bauer). . Do you think the end of for-profit prisons is a positive decision? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326/2 "2016-08-19T18:13:58Z")
This is hardly the end of it; this is only Federal prisons. In your link: > [@](#): > > While experts said the directive is significant, privately run federal prisons house only a fraction of the overall population of inmates. **The vast majority of the incarcerated in America are housed in state prisons — rather than federal ones — and Yates’ memo does not apply to any of those, even the ones that are privately run.** a lot of things most countries handle at the federal level is relegated to the states in the US. Another one is that we have no federal sales tax. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326/3 "2016-08-19T19:44:54Z")
> **[Home](https://bjs.ojp.gov)** > > The Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) is the United States' primary source for criminal justice statistics that cover a wide range of topics. > [@](#): > > About 16% of federal prisoners (33,830) and nearly 7% of state prisoners (94,365) were housed in private facilities on December 31, 2010 These numbers are 6 years old, but the numbers were about 3x the number of state prisoners in private prisons versus federal. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326/4 "2016-08-19T20:06:48Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > This is hardly the end of it; this is only Federal prisons. In your link: > > a lot of things most countries handle at the federal level is relegated to the states in the US. Another one is that we have no federal sales tax. It’s still a significant shift. States tend to follow the big four (California, New York, Texas, and the federal system) on prison policies. If the federal system stops using private prisons (and New York never did) other states will probably follow their example. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326/5 "2016-08-19T20:10:33Z")
Prisoners in private prisons make up about 1.6% of total prisoners in the US. It is not a big deal. I think it is a pity because private prison contracts can be cancelled and that could lead to evolutionary change in the prison system which is much needed. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326/6 "2016-08-19T20:34:58Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326/7 "2016-08-19T21:22:00Z")
I suspect (worry) that this decision is going to lead to MORE use of private prisons at the state level. These companies like CCA are going to have buildings sitting vacant after the feds move federal inmates, states have rising prison populations, CCA needs to do something to boost their stock price … ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326/8 "2016-08-19T21:28:57Z")
Good fucking riddance. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326/9 "2016-08-19T22:42:12Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Yesterday, August 18, [the Justice Department announced that it will no longer contract with private prisons,](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/08/18/justice-department-says-it-will-end-use-of-private-prisons/?utm_term=.4e9251b98243) which currently hold thousands of federal inmates—a massive policy shift. > > The decison may have been influenced by TV-series like Orange Is The New Black. > > And by reports that the money saved is minimal, and the effects perverse. All this and more is explained in this widely shared long read on Mother Jones from last June, [Shane Bauer’s account of his four-month stint as a guard in a private prison](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/cca-private-prisons-corrections-corporation-inmates-investigation-bauer). . > > Do you think the end of for-profit prisons is a positive decision? So you think that private prisons are worse than non private prisons? I don’t think there is any report saying private prisons are more overcrowded. > [@](#): > > It’s still a significant shift. States tend to follow the big four (California, New York, Texas, and the federal system) on prison policies. If the federal system stops using private prisons (and New York never did) other states will probably follow their example. Unless Trump got in than much of the liberal progressive policy would be removed. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326/10 "2016-08-20T01:08:02Z")
So I’ve never quite understood why a privately owned prison is automatically worse than a government run one. Can someone explain why this is such a hot button issue? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326/11 "2016-08-20T01:49:59Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > So I’ve never quite understood why a privately owned prison is automatically worse than a government run one. Can someone explain why this is such a hot button issue? they get paid based on how many convicts they’re housing, and have every incentive to minimize costs. and it leads to shit like this: [http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/us/13judge.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/us/13judge.html?_r=0) ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326/12 "2016-08-20T01:55:55Z")
Can’t speak for anyone else, but I view it as immoral to link incarceration to profit. When someone profits from keeping people locked up, you get more people locked up longer. The state has an incentive to minimize the prison population. Private prisons have an incentive to keep people locked up. So you have lobbying interests pushing for more draconian laws in the name of profit. Irrespective of whether it’s more efficient, it’s perverse. ---
**Author:** ![Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emtar_KronJonDerSohn)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326/13 "2016-08-20T02:35:22Z")
They have an incentive to lobby for incarceration instead of rehabilitative services. At my last job I had a minimum security private prison as a customer which was created to house only felony DUI offenders. One day I noticed there was a second dock which was bricked over next to the functioning dock and upon further inspection there were several dozen bricked docks running the length of the building. Ironically it was literally a warehouse for storing DUI offenders. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326/14 "2016-08-20T03:05:49Z")
> [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](#): > > They have an incentive to lobby for incarceration instead of rehabilitative services. > > At my last job I had a minimum security private prison as a customer which was created to house only felony DUI offenders. One day I noticed there was a second dock which was bricked over next to the functioning dock and upon further inspection there were several dozen bricked docks running the length of the building. Ironically it was literally a warehouse for storing DUI offenders. Wouldn’t they actually have an incentive to push for rehabilitative services? I can’t say for sure but one of the most important things you do in business is to sell add-ons. So if I get it in my contract to provide rehabilitation to detainees that’s more money for me. It sounds to me that the department of prisons is the one which is screwing the prisoners over by not taking their welfare, and not paying for it, in the contract. The number one rule of working a government contract is you provide the services in the contract and nothing more. Honestly do you think the fact that the government owns the building is going to significantly change the work crews to be government workers? No they’ll be contractors. Everyone who does any work in government is a contractor, the government types just “supervise”, generally from afar. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326/15 "2016-08-20T05:37:10Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > and it leads to shit like this: > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/us/13judge.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/us/13judge.html?_r=0) That was a case of governmental corruption, where a public authority was empowered to operate in secret, without oversight or checks and balances. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326/16 "2016-08-20T05:56:35Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Yesterday, August 18, [the Justice Department announced that it will no longer contract with private prisons,](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/08/18/justice-department-says-it-will-end-use-of-private-prisons/?utm_term=.4e9251b98243) which currently hold thousands of federal inmates—a massive policy shift. > And by reports that the money saved is minimal, and the effects perverse. All this and more is explained in this widely shared long read on Mother Jones from last June, [Shane Bauer’s account of his four-month stint as a guard in a private prison](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/cca-private-prisons-corrections-corporation-inmates-investigation-bauer). . > > Do you think the end of for-profit prisons is a positive decision? Wow, that article by Bauer was nightmarish in many ways…and not just because of its length. :eek: > [@Bayard](#): > > Can’t speak for anyone else, but I view it as immoral to link incarceration to profit. When someone profits from keeping people locked up, you get more people locked up longer. The state has an incentive to minimize the prison population. Private prisons have an incentive to keep people locked up. So you have lobbying interests pushing for more draconian laws in the name of profit. Irrespective of whether it’s more efficient, it’s perverse. Yeah, this. When ‘justice’ is proscribed by the state but meted out by a third party, something isn’t right. Apart from the ethical aspects as **Bayard** noted, read the Bauer piece in **Maastrich’s** link for how it can go so horribly wrong. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326/17 "2016-08-20T06:09:56Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Wouldn’t they actually have an incentive to push for rehabilitative services? I can’t say for sure but one of the most important things you do in business is to sell add-ons. So if I get it in my contract to provide rehabilitation to detainees that’s more money for me. It sounds to me that the department of prisons is the one which is screwing the prisoners over by not taking their welfare, and not paying for it, in the contract. You’re confusing _selling_ rehab services versus _providing_ rehab services. Rehab is expensive; slapping a “rehab counselor” title on a barely-above-minimum-wage worker is cheap. Unless the state writes and enforces very detailed descriptions, what they get is the very barest minimum level of service, a veneer with no substance behind it. Meanwhile, having more inmates gives opportunity to generate even more profits by charging said inmates or their families grossly inflated prices for canteen items, telephone calls, etc. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326/18 "2016-08-20T19:50:43Z")
Idaho just recently took back control of the state prisons from Penis Corp or Erections American or whatever the damn name was of that festering pile of corruption that ran Idaho Corrections Facility for a while. All amid allegations and investigations of abuse, fraud and flagrant waste. Nothing ever came of the charges (suspiciously to my mind as our governor is extremely business and privatization friendly) But the state is running the prison again. Prisons are one of the few things that should constitutionally be forbidden to be privatized in my mind. Hallelujah for the Feds wresting control of the prisons back from the [del]criminals[/del] corporations. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326/19 "2016-08-20T20:20:33Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > This is hardly the end of it; this is only Federal prisons. And at least so far, doesn’t apply to detainees held by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, only to those serving Federal criminal sentences. ---
**Author:** ![Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emtar_KronJonDerSohn)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finally-the-end-of-for-profit-prisons-in-the-usa/763326/20 "2016-08-20T20:45:25Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Wouldn’t they actually have an incentive to push for rehabilitative services? I can’t say for sure but one of the most important things you do in business is to sell add-ons. So if I get it in my contract to provide rehabilitation to detainees that’s more money for me. It sounds to me that the department of prisons is the one which is screwing the prisoners over by not taking their welfare, and not paying for it, in the contract. > > The number one rule of working a government contract is you provide the services in the contract and nothing more. Honestly do you think the fact that the government owns the building is going to significantly change the work crews to be government workers? No they’ll be contractors. Everyone who does any work in government is a contractor, the government types just “supervise”, generally from afar. Legitimate rehabilitative services = lower recidivism rates = less repeat business.