# Financial disacuity **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 22, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949 "2014-12-22T20:10:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949/61 "2014-12-24T22:01:12Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > …being typical Cracked “journalism.” They do love to overreach. > > They need to stay with lists of comic book hero underwear colors and the like. Well at least Shodan had some substantive points to bring up. You got … let me see there … nothing … in the substantive department. If your argument were a bank account the bank would be dinging you for overdrafts. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949/62 "2014-12-24T23:32:42Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Well at least Shodan had some substantive points to bring up. You got … let me see there … nothing … in the substantive department. If your argument were a bank account the bank would be dinging you for overdrafts. O, I M wounded. Calling Crapped’s attempts at factual writing pathetic hardly requires two pages of end notes. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949/63 "2014-12-25T00:25:54Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Not necessarily. I once got a call from HR asking why wasn’t I contributing to the company’s 401(k); I explained that, given the fee structure, the plan needed to have a return over 16% before it gave me a single cent. If I’d been putting the money in a piggy bank, the piggy would have made more sense (I was actually putting three times the maximum amount the company would have allowed me to “save” in a different investment). > > She asked me to send over my calculations. I understand there were Words with the people choosing available 401(k)s and with the managers of the current ones, but what I still don’t understand is why it took a lab tech to do the numbers. A very good point. IME plans have gotten significantly better in the last decade, with lower fees and wider fund availability. But it’s important to compare one’s plan to other options. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949/64 "2014-12-25T00:38:21Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Back in the 1970’s, I was a computer programmer, earning good money. > I saved about £200 / month into a saving account paying over 7% interest (those were the days!) > Allowing for inflation and currency adjustment, that comes to about $2,800 / month these days. 🆒 > Those savings eventually got me a house. 🙂 > > Meanwhile a colleague, Chris (earning the same sort of salary) used to tell me what brilliant spending he’d done that week. Clothes, car, casino gambling, drinking, eating out - a never-ending stream of stuff. > > I asked him how he could afford it. Chris proudly revealed his secret: > > - after his first credit card was maxed out, he’d get another one and max that out to pay the interest (and buy more stuff) > > He was on his fourth credit card when he got transferred, so I never found out how he coped with his debt (@ 25% interest :smack: ) > [@Guinastasia](#): > > How the hell does he keep getting approved for all these cards? > [@drachillix](#): > > If he is making the payments on them, his credit probably looks pretty good. It was partly because Chris did pay interest (though not repay capital) and partly because in the 70s it was really easy to get a credit card. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949/65 "2014-12-25T00:53:39Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Not necessarily. I once got a call from HR asking why wasn’t I contributing to the company’s 401(k); I explained that, given the fee structure, the plan needed to have a return over 16% before it gave me a single cent. If I’d been putting the money in a piggy bank, the piggy would have made more sense (I was actually putting three times the maximum amount the company would have allowed me to “save” in a different investment). > > She asked me to send over my calculations. I understand there were Words with the people choosing available 401(k)s and with the managers of the current ones, but what I still don’t understand is why it took a lab tech to do the numbers. I’ve come to the conclusion that if HR wants something, it’s usually not a good idea. During the last “open enrollment” period, the health insurance spiel here was how awesome the High Deductible Health Plan was. It’ll likely save you money, honest! Look at these sample case studies! In this scenario, the employee saves $500 by choosing the HDHP! Oh, let me conclude the presentation by saying that the High Deductible Health Plan is really terrific, you should sign up! Guess what I _didn’t_ sign up for that season? I don’t even want to know how much they got paid to shill that. With that level of effort, it’s not likely to be a good deal for me. I took the regular old PPO, same as before. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949/66 "2014-12-25T00:56:59Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > O, I M wounded. > > Calling Crapped’s attempts at factual writing pathetic hardly requires two pages of end notes. dude, they’re a humor/satire site. while there’s usually a grain of truth in the things they say, they’re not journalists and don’t pretend to be. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949/67 "2014-12-25T01:03:18Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > I’ve come to the conclusion that if HR wants something, it’s usually not a good idea. During the last “open enrollment” period, the health insurance spiel here was how awesome the High Deductible Health Plan was. It’ll likely save you money, honest! Look at these sample case studies! In this scenario, the employee saves $500 by choosing the HDHP! Oh, let me conclude the presentation by saying that the High Deductible Health Plan is really terrific, you should sign up! The only people those HDHP’s are good for are young and truly healthy people who don’t get pregnant or have kids to worry about, who stay that way for a number of years so the HSA attached to the HDHP can build up a nest egg - and if a HDHP doesn’t have a HSA it isn’t worth shit. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949/68 "2014-12-25T02:16:23Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > dude, they’re a humor/satire site. while there’s usually a grain of truth in the things they say, they’re not journalists and don’t pretend to be. Well if that blog post was intended to be funny, it was … COMPLETELY off the mark. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949/69 "2014-12-25T02:31:45Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > dude, they’re a humor/satire site. while there’s usually a grain of truth in the things they say, they’re not journalists and don’t pretend to be. When they stick with humor, they’re at least ignorable. When they try to Get Real, they show how shallow they really are. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949/70 "2014-12-25T02:47:07Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The problem being that the article seems to consist of > [ul][li]Outright lies. Processed food is not cheaper per serving than fresh. [/li][li]Things that don’t make sense - how does being obsessive about how much money you have make you poor?[/li][li]Things that are not related to the specific economic conditions, except that they create and exacerbate poverty. Spending extra money right away and excessive gift-giving are two of the habits the article mentions. It is difficult to see how this is not an example of ignorance and/or stupidity - the article even says they are.[/ul][/li]Regards, > Shodan After I read some of the descriptions, especially in that linked article, I think your conclusion is a big harsh. “Outright Lies”. perhaps on the day the food is bought, but is fresh food still cheaper after it has been sitting in the kitchen for 10 days? On a per meal basis. Canned beans do last longer… ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949/71 "2014-12-25T03:04:23Z")
Probably more in line with\*\* Fairychatmum\*\*, but my mother drives me to distraction at times. I understand that she and her family grew up in the depression, but she is pushing 92 and just had a couple of operations. She is alert and capable though but she still won’t spend any money and her time left must be limited. Yesterday, I had to go and cement a new letter box in place for her in heat that was in the 90’s. No, she wouldn’t think to pay someone to do it but she would wait until I had time to get up there and do it. However, that is not a big deal- what irked me was she was wondering what to do with the old one (the post had rusted through and it had fallen over). I told her to throw it out as i was cheap junk (I had erected it years ago). Nope she saved i in case someone could use it. Now her computer needs replacing as it keeps coming up with the message that XP is 12 years old and no longer supported. Her computer is so old it wouldn’t handle Windows 7 without wheezing but she won’t buy a new one. She is not rich, but she is comfortable. The concept of never spending a cent more than you have to has sent me grey I am sure. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949/72 "2014-12-25T03:09:22Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > A truly vast number of people are like this - burn dollars, carefully polish zinc pennies. Most people are as bad at their overall economic sense as they are at accurate risk assessment, including those who pride themselves on a few “good” habits. The most mind boggling example of this I have ever seen was in my mom(who was legitimately mentally ill) but at least seemed to grasp basic logic in other facets of her life. My mother REFUSED to pay $10 extra for an unlimited cell plan, yet every single month she was getting hit with $200-$600 in overage charges for going over her minutes. It stunned me and my sister, my sister would actually call in to Sprint pretending to be my mom and move her to the unlimited plan. Then my mom would a month or two later call in and get it changed back to a plan with 100 minutes that was $10 cheaper, BUT if you went over the minutes you were charged an almost criminal fee for every minute(this should be illegal). I once called her and spent hour after frustrating hour trying to explain it to her, I said mom the unlimited plan would save you hundreds every month. Her:No I’m not going to pay $10 extra, I don’t have that kind of money! Me:Mom you’re paying an average of $400 a month now to save that $10! Her:Well sorry but I don’t have the $10 dollars to waste, you’re not giving me any money! Me:You are wasting hundreds to save ten, listen mom I will give you the ten dollars if you switch to unlimited, I’ll make the switch for you online. Her:Why should I give an extra ten dollars if I don’t have to?! I refuse to do it. :smack:And around and around and around. I started HATING a lot of companies and the social services for facilitating this exploitation of the stupid or mentally ill. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949/73 "2014-12-25T03:38:04Z")
**grude** : If she is like this consistently and IF you want the responsibility, you could document everything she does which is indicative of mental incompetence and petition the Court to make you (or someone responsible) her Conservator or Limited Conservator. See lawyer - this is a BIG deal - you essentially get a Judge to declare her incompetent in (at least financial) matters. AIUI, once that is done, she can no longer call and get the plan switched, she will require someone to handle (at least potentially) all financial transactions. You could set up automatic payments for all the obvious. Again, see lawyer My sister has Parkinsons and BIL just got named her Conservator. This is CA, so she technically owns 1/2 of everything. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949/74 "2014-12-25T03:52:47Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Not sure this is a LIE per se. NPR for example, quotes a nutritionist/economist on the topic:[Why processed foods are cheaper than fresh foods.](http://www.npr.org/2013/03/01/173217143/why-process-food-is-cheaper-than-healthier-options) Note that you have to factor in TIME to get processed foods to be cheaper. My minister’s husband works with immigrants on teaching them how to negotiate American grocery stores. Immigrants from Asia, Europe, Latin America, and a lot from Africa who are coming with almost nothing. Rice, beans, garlic, canned tomatoes, olive oil, corn meal, frozen peas, broccoli, spinach plus fresh onions and sweet potatoes are the basic foods he teaches them to use - and most of the cultures have many of those foods as their basics. Plus, most of the Africans have religious food taboos. And the essential crockpot - which makes it possible to take beans that have soaked overnight, throw them in a pot with water, rice and a can of tomatos and have dinner when you arrive home. Nearly everything there is shelf stable or can be kept in an apartment freezer to reduce waste. Immigrants do it without off brand mac and cheese, but our own poor apparently can’t soak beans overnight and throw them into a crockpot. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949/75 "2014-12-25T04:25:45Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > **grude** : > > If she is like this consistently and IF you want the responsibility, you could document everything she does which is indicative of mental incompetence and petition the Court to make you (or someone responsible) her Conservator or Limited Conservator. > See lawyer - this is a BIG deal - you essentially get a Judge to declare her incompetent in (at least financial) matters. > AIUI, once that is done, she can no longer call and get the plan switched, she will require someone to handle (at least potentially) all financial transactions. > > You could set up automatic payments for all the obvious. > > Again, see lawyer > > My sister has Parkinsons and BIL just got named her Conservator. This is CA, so she technically owns 1/2 of everything. My mom died recently so the issue no longer matters(don’t worry I know you intended nothing bad! And you gave good advice for others). I think like someone else said the cognitive blindspot comes from a deprived childhood like growing up during the depression. Social services was useless though with her, as long as the elderly person you’re trying to get help for can charm them and put on a front they refused to do anything. Seemed like they only considered really obvious dementia of the not knowing who the president is variety worthy. Otherwise they tell family to back off.(It was Texas though, and I say that having grown up there) ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949/76 "2014-12-25T04:30:17Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Plus, most of the Africans have religious food taboos. Not trying to create a hijack but can you expand on that? Googling the term was of limited result and I’m curious. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949/77 "2014-12-25T04:43:40Z")
> [@grude](#): > > My mother REFUSED to pay $10 extra for an unlimited cell plan, yet every single month she was getting hit with $200-$600 in overage charges for going over her minutes. > > \<_snip\>_ > > I once called her and spent hour after frustrating hour trying to explain it to her, I said mom the unlimited plan would save you hundreds Her:No I’m not going to pay $10 extra, I don’t have that kind of money! Hmm. Seems like avoiding your calls would have saved her quite a bit as well. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949/78 "2014-12-25T05:13:50Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Not trying to create a hijack but can you expand on that? Googling the term was of limited result and I’m curious. Islam is quite common in Africa. See halel (very similar to Kosher). ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949/79 "2014-12-25T05:35:35Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Social services was useless though with her, as long as the elderly person you’re trying to get help for can charm them and put on a front they refused to do anything. Seemed like they only considered really obvious dementia of the not knowing who the president is variety worthy. Otherwise they tell family to back off.(It was Texas though, and I say that having grown up there) To be fair, that can be hard to see even to close relatives. Quite a few of the folks in my grandma’s home (including grandma) are perfectly capable of keeping up their end of a conversation even though they either don’t hear you or have no idea what you’re talking about, who you are or what day it is. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949/80 "2014-12-25T06:05:55Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Hmm. Seems like avoiding your calls would have saved her quite a bit as well. 😉 Heh, the call took place during one of the months she was mysteriously switched to unlimited. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/financial-disacuity/707949.md?page=5)