# Find a definition of homosexuality that mentions anal sex... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 22, 2004, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626 "2004-01-22T14:46:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626/61 "2004-01-27T20:10:58Z")
**Malacandra** and **Labmonkey** : I find it hard to believe you two actually believe the stupid shit you keep spewing out but just in case you’re serious let me make a few points: 1.) The word “natural” is basically meaningless. Everything in the universe is “natural.” Nothing can occur unless it occurs “naturally.” All human behavior is natural. All sexuality is natural. 2.) Now then, “natural” does not necessarily mean good or right or ethical or desirable. All it means is that it is a phenomenon which occurs in the universe. War is natural. Racism is natural. Assholes like you are natural. So yes, rape and molestation are “natural.” They are rejected and sanctioned as unacceptable behaviors in human populations not because they are “unnatural” but because they have a toxic and corrosive effect on the well-being and survival of the population as a whole. 3.) The fact that humans engage in anal sex _ipso facto_ makes it “natural.” The facillitation of reproduction has nothing to do with whether it’s natural and reproduction is not the sole purpose for sexual behavior. Even in heterosexual couplings, penile-vaginal intercourse is usually NOT engaged in for reproduction. 4.) Guess what, dickweeds, ANIMALS engage in anal sex…oral sex too. Is it “unnantural” when animals do it? Yes or no? And how are you defining “natural?” 5.) The point of the OP is that homosexuality as an orientation cannot be reduced to a particular sexual act. It’s not even accurate to say that homosexuality can be defined by any sexual behavior. You can be gay and not have sex. You can have anal sex with a guy and not be gay (it happens). I’ve actually read that most gay males do _not_ engage in anal sex, at least not regularly. So the OP is right and **Lbertarian’s** assesment of **Malacandra’s** intellectual acumen have been right on target. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626/62 "2004-01-27T22:04:22Z")
Diogenes Just so you know, Labmonkey has been joking. Malacandra has been the joke. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626/63 "2004-01-27T22:27:21Z")
Oops. My irony detector was turned off. Damn this new format. Sorry, **Labmonkey**. Thanks, Lib. ---
**Author:** ![labmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f19dbf/32.png) [@labmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626/64 "2004-01-27T22:30:15Z")
Humorless is too good a word to describe you, **Diogenes the Cynic**. Tit for tat then I suppose, how pedestrian :rolleyes: . Ahem, fuck you,blah blah blah, asshole, blah, call me dickweed will ya, blah, blah, why I oughta…sprinkle in asshat here and there… there,more your speed you fucking reactionary little pissant? ---
**Author:** ![labmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f19dbf/32.png) [@labmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626/65 "2004-01-27T22:45:25Z")
Ooops, didn’t see your post before I posted, may I humbly retract, or do you still want the whole pistols at dawn thing? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2004, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626/66 "2004-01-27T23:39:50Z")
> [@Diogenes](#): > > 1.) The word “natural” is basically meaningless. Everything in the universe is “natural.” Nothing can occur unless it occurs “naturally.” All human behavior is natural. All sexuality is natural. Tangent: If the word “natural” means, essentially, “everything in the universe,” then the true opposite of the word would not be “artificial,” it would be “supernatural.” That is to say, “things not in this universe,” or more specifically, “things that do not exsist.” Astronomy is natural. Astrology is supernatural. As for **Malacandra** ’s blathering, his arguments only work if you take for granted the proposition that the only purpose of sex is reproduction. Since this is manifestly untrue, the distinction he is trying to create between anal sex and vaginal sex is clearly meaningless. Also, stupid. ---
**Author:** ![nisosbar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@nisosbar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nisosbar)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626/67 "2004-01-28T01:15:16Z")
> [@CheekyMonkey613](#): > > If you’re doing it _with_ a woman, _how_ homosexual can it be, guys? And in a continuation of this arguement, if straight men do it with women, how can it be defined as “gay sex”. Uh…, thank you, cheeky! I tried to argue this in a prior thread, and got my toes burned off for being so stupid. You made the point much better than I did. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![nisosbar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@nisosbar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nisosbar)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626/68 "2004-01-28T01:21:39Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Tangent: If the word “natural” means, essentially, “everything in the universe,” then the true opposite of the word would not be “artificial,” it would be “supernatural.” So then, it’s REALLY “_supernatural_ insemination”? ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626/69 "2004-01-28T11:01:13Z")
Only in one widely-disputed instance which happened a couple of thousand years ago. Given the trouble which resulted from it, there are some who’d say that’s a good thing! 😉 CJ (Someone had to say it!) ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626/70 "2004-01-28T11:11:19Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > As for **Malacandra** ’s blathering, his arguments only work if you take for granted the proposition that the only purpose of sex is reproduction. Since this is manifestly untrue, the distinction he is trying to create between anal sex and vaginal sex is clearly meaningless. Also, stupid. Those who were paying attention to the very first post I made in this thread would have noticed that I said “From the point of view of sex as reproduction…” at the start of the argument. Apparently this is a very small proportion of the readership. Or, possibly, a very large proportion, and it’s only the very small proportion who have taken it on themselves to call me an idiot. Since I then specifically mentioned sex for other purposes as well to make the distinction even clearer, I despair of those who think that I think that the only purpose of sex is reproduction. Since I’ve mentioned my own enjoyment of masturbation, oral sex, anal sex, and my own use of contraceptives, I’m forced to conclude that certain people hereabouts would rather pile on than take notice of what’s hitting their retinas. I can convey meaning, but not understanding. Sheesh. “Fighting ignorance”, yet. So… from the definitions of “natural” that have been floating around in the thread, I guess harvesting an egg from an unborn foetus, replacing its nucleus with a genetically-modified orang-utan cell nucleus, implanting it in the uterus of a hundred-year-old woman and using massive medical intervention to bring the resulting pregnancy to term would count as “natural” reproduction? After all, all the participants would by definition be “natural” creatures and nothing that they did could possibly be unnatural, am I right? Just answer yes or no. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626/71 "2004-01-28T11:55:07Z")
Stop being so intellectually desperate. If the best you can do every time you post is accuse people of not reading, then just shut up. People have responded to your “from the point of sex as reproduction” by explaining to you how myopic and irrelevant a point of view it is. You know, from the point of view of philosophy as a vehicle for whiny brats, Schopenhauer was an enlightened genius. So what? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626/72 "2004-01-28T12:46:08Z")
Not so much desperate as driven to mild distraction by the fact of having context continually ignored. Personally I think that, if you want to demonstrate that vaginal intercourse is natural, then a nod in the direction of the reproductive functions of the organs involved is entirely relevant. But what do I know? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626/73 "2004-01-28T12:53:43Z")
What you don’t know is that everyone, including me, has conceded that vaginal intercourse is natural. But you have not conceded that anal intercourse is equally natural. Not from a reproduction perspective — this is not a thread about the definition of homoreproduction — but from the prespective of _sexuality_. Get it? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626/74 "2004-01-28T13:23:47Z")
Ah, I see where we’re getting confused. Show me where I said that anal sex was unnatural, and then we’ll see about me saying that it’s natural. I did say that _from a reproductive point of view_ it is aberrant - meaning that, stick your dick up there, and good luck for your chances of making any babies that way, whatever your species - and it is; but that was my sole harsh word on the subject. Consequently, any lambasting of me on the grounds that I said it was unnatural falls by detail. It should be enough for you that I haven’t said one way or the other. Dictating my private opinions is egregious thought-policing. Actually this thread _was_ about the non-synonymity of anal sex and homosexuality… ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626/75 "2004-01-28T13:25:02Z")
Detail? Try “default” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626/76 "2004-01-28T14:22:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Show me where I said that anal sex was unnatural, and then we’ll see about me saying that it’s natural. Thus spake Malacandra: > [@](#): > > Libertarian’s argument was fundamentally flawed, since there is **no other natural way** for mammals to reproduce other than sticking the penis into the vagina and hence to label such activity as unnatural is idiotic. Did someone else appropriate your username and password? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2004, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626/77 "2004-01-28T15:23:01Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > Thus spake Malacandra: > > > [@Malacandra](#): > > > > Libertarian’s argument was fundamentally flawed, since there is no other natural way for mammals to reproduce other than sticking the penis into the vagina and hence to label such activity as unnatural is idiotic. > > Did someone else appropriate your username and password? Um, no. Are we going to go round and round on the definition of “natural reproduction” again? The above quote is arguing about the naturalness of vaginal intercourse. I make no statement that “other sexual activity is unnatural”. I say, in terms of other sexual activity that makes little mammals, there isn’t any - and I don’t suppose you’re about to advocate anal intercourse as a natural means of _conception_, surely? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626/78 "2004-01-29T00:09:20Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Ah, I see where we’re getting confused. Show me where I said that anal sex was unnatural, and then we’ll see about me saying that it’s natural. > > I did say that _from a reproductive point of view_ it is aberrant - meaning that, stick your dick up there, and good luck for your chances of making any babies that way, whatever your species - and it is; but that was my sole harsh word on the subject. Consequently, any lambasting of me on the grounds that I said it was unnatural falls by detail. It should be enough for you that I haven’t said one way or the other. Dictating my private opinions is egregious thought-policing. And the Good Lord knows, that is such a vitally important point to make that it needed to be defended in the most acrimonious manner possible for at least two pages. Schmuck. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626/79 "2004-01-29T00:22:39Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Ah, I see where we’re getting confused. Show me where I said that anal sex was unnatural, and then we’ll see about me saying that it’s natural. > > I did say that _from a reproductive point of view_ it is aberrant - meaning that, stick your dick up there, and good luck for your chances of making any babies that way, whatever your species - and it is; but that was my sole harsh word on the subject. Consequently, any lambasting of me on the grounds that I said it was unnatural falls by detail. It should be enough for you that I haven’t said one way or the other. Dictating my private opinions is egregious thought-policing. > > Actually this thread _was_ about the non-synonymity of anal sex and homosexuality… So WTF does reproduction have to do with the topic? Anal sex is not a “natural” way to cook spaghetti either. So the fuck what? That isn’t why it’s done. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2004, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626/80 "2004-01-29T09:27:49Z")
Still plenty of wittering I see. Still no-one establishing that I said anal sex was unnatural in the first place. It’s hardly my fault this thread has gone on for two pages. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > So WTF does reproduction have to do with the topic? Anal sex is not a “natural” way to cook spaghetti either. So the fuck what? That isn’t why it’s done. WTF does reproduction have to do with the topic? To demonstrate that vaginal intercourse is validated by biological necessity and hence that Libertarian’s earlier comparison between it and anal intercourse is not valid. Not to demonstrate that anal sex is unnatural. Still less to demonstrate that all those who engage in it are foul deviants. But you could be forgiven for thinking that I had been saying exactly that from the flaming I’ve been getting. > [@Miller](#): > > And the Good Lord knows, that is such a vitally important point to make that it needed to be defended in the most acrimonious manner possible for at least two pages. > > Schmuck. And He also knows that it was vitally important for you to pitch in and toss your own $0.02-worth of acrimony and contribute nothing else. Schmuck\*10^100 and no returns. There’s some reason why I should sit back and passively accept being accused of thoughtcrime? I don’t fucking think so. Will now sit back and wait for Lib et. al. to say “I understand, Malacandra”. _takes 12-bore and sights on approaching flock of prime pork_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/find-a-definition-of-homosexuality-that-mentions-anal-sex/225626.md?page=5)