# Finding a naked woman tied up (or guy if you prefer) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 20, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-a-naked-woman-tied-up-or-guy-if-you-prefer/676855 "2013-12-20T22:54:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-a-naked-woman-tied-up-or-guy-if-you-prefer/676855/81 "2013-12-23T19:37:01Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > A possible counter example would be someone you find in bondage, that you know people will be able to free them when they get there in 2 days, you can not free them yourself, you also are 3 days from being able to get to a place to get help for her (him), you agree to stay with her (him), and in that process of you staying there **you both agree to have sex.** [Bolding mine]Nope, not possible. Consent can only be granted when \*refusal \*of consent is equally possible. This person is physically incapacitated and couldn’t refuse you if they wanted to. That is, they could verbally refuse, but couldn’t enforce that refusal in any way. They have no idea who you are, or what harm you might try to do to them if they refuse. And even if they have a perfectly plausible and innocuous explanation for their situation, you have no way of knowing whether they’re only saying it under duress. Bottom line, they cannot grant consent until they’re untied. And if you’re really concerned about morally correct action, I’d suggest waiting until you’re certain they’re not still in shock or otherwise feeling highly emotionally vulnerable. I’m so squicked out that anyone could think differently. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-a-naked-woman-tied-up-or-guy-if-you-prefer/676855/82 "2013-12-23T19:52:48Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I never said it was abolished, but it was fulfilled. Totally and completely fulfilled. Satisfied in full - forever. > > Or put another way, what part of the Law does the blood of Jesus not cover? If that was so, how could anyone “annul one of the least of these commandments?” ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-a-naked-woman-tied-up-or-guy-if-you-prefer/676855/83 "2013-12-23T20:02:26Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The law does not bring life. It is defined as the law of sin and death in Ro 8:2. Sin and death are of the satanic kingdom. > > It was created by ruling authorities, not necessarily demons. ‘Ordained through angels.’ is one biblical take (Gal 3:19). Demons certainly act to enforce the law and punishment however. > > Satan himself is often taken as a prosecutor before the court of God, Satan would be arguing violations of the law to hold onto his right to inflict pain on the person who is under the law. Ah, okay, I see what you’re getting at. (Believe it or not.) You’re talking about devils – which is my word for what you define as demons. My definition of “demon” is an entity which is naturally psychologic (and perhaps “spiritual”, though I’m very hesitant to use that word here) and can control people into doing harmful things to themselves & others – as in the idiom “personal demons”, or “the demon of alcohol.” The difference is that these demons can only control people, not outside events. Devils (or demons, as you call them) CAN control outside events, but devils are essentially angels – in fact, there is no practical difference between devils and angels, except that humans perceive devils as committing wicked, evil acts, when in fact devils are not evil but merely indifferent to mankind, or perceive mankind as a hindrance to achieving their ultimate goal of Karmic Balance. (As in the words of Nietzsche, the hawk thinks eating rabbit is good, but the rabbit disagrees…) So therefore, you must be asserting that God is the Ultimate Devil, who provided humanity with Ten Commandments for the sole and explicit purpose of deceiving and manipulating mankind for all uncountable millennia from then until now until forever, and in God’s mind that’s Good Thing. If that’s the case, we are on the same page. Q.E.D. > [@kanicbird](#): > > The overcoming of Christ removed the penalty from the law, therefor Satan can charge violations, yet there is nothing he can enforce as there is no longer a penalty. Yet Satan can have the person still believe they are under the penalty and accept punishment. Which is a little outside the scope of your question but goes into the motive for the law - why Satan wants it. > > The law conflicts with morality, it conflicts with living by love. If Satan can have people live under the law, then they are hindered from living by Love. It stops the flow of good will, not all the time, but enough to stop humanity from progressing to a truly loving society. Since you brought Christ into this, I would counter by stating that Satan and Christ are in fact the exact and same entity. One is merely a flip side of the other. Can’t support my claim right now with any Biblical quotes (probably could if I tried, but my brain is starting to hurt a little) but from personal experience this is clearly the case. Again, Karmic Balance. But what REALLY confuses me is how any of this has anything at all to do with a woman tied up in the woods!!! 😕 😕 😕 > [@CalMeacham](#): > > > [@kayaker](#): > > > > So, it’s not all barren?😛 > > Only in the Pines. Best. Sopranos. Episode. Ever. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-a-naked-woman-tied-up-or-guy-if-you-prefer/676855/84 "2013-12-24T23:34:04Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > If that was so, how could anyone “annul one of the least of these commandments?” Annul means make invalid, in this case by divine right. It’s interesting that both those who annul and those who teach still make it it the Kingdom of heaven. How can one actually make invalid a commandment that God has authorized? I’m not sure except to say for a very young child of God, a infant, or toddler, of God, may not understand much and may because he/she is a child, still have such power to effect such a change (changes being changes in the lives of the children of the earth), yet this child will be recognized as only a infant/toddler, and need further parenting before they can truly rule to the extent that God has planned. So It is not a derogatory term, but it a statement of the age of the child of God, and a child is not accountable, yet God’s child can effect changes. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-a-naked-woman-tied-up-or-guy-if-you-prefer/676855/85 "2013-12-24T23:43:45Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Ah, okay, I see what you’re getting at. (Believe it or not.) You’re talking about devils – which is my word for what you define as demons. My definition of “demon” is an entity which is naturally psychologic (and perhaps “spiritual”, though I’m very hesitant to use that word here) and can control people into doing harmful things to themselves & others – as in the idiom “personal demons”, or “the demon of alcohol.” The difference is that these demons can only control people, not outside events. Devils (or demons, as you call them) CAN control outside events, but devils are essentially angels – in fact, there is no practical difference between devils and angels, except that humans perceive devils as committing wicked, evil acts, when in fact devils are not evil but merely indifferent to mankind, or perceive mankind as a hindrance to achieving their ultimate goal of Karmic Balance. (As in the words of Nietzsche, the hawk thinks eating rabbit is good, but the rabbit disagrees…) > > So therefore, you must be asserting that God is the Ultimate Devil, who provided humanity with Ten Commandments for the sole and explicit purpose of deceiving and manipulating mankind for all uncountable millennia from then until now until forever, and in God’s mind that’s Good Thing. If that’s the case, we are on the same page. Q.E.D. > > Since you brought Christ into this, I would counter by stating that Satan and Christ are in fact the exact and same entity. One is merely a flip side of the other. Can’t support my claim right now with any Biblical quotes (probably could if I tried, but my brain is starting to hurt a little) but from personal experience this is clearly the case. Again, Karmic Balance. > > But what REALLY confuses me is how any of this has anything at all to do with a woman tied up in the woods!!! 😕 😕 😕 > Best. Sopranos. Episode. Ever. 😃 To me Arch Angels are the parents of Angels, Angles are the parents of humans (though there are some cross breads i.e. Nephlium). Demons are angels cut off from God, The devil, AKA Satan is a Arch angle cut off from God. Love was suppose to flow from higher to lower from God to higher levels of angels I can’t yet imagine, to Arch angels, to angels to people. That was God’s plan Satan, the Devil turned this around where the children of the earth flowed love up to demons and they to Satan. So Satan and his angels are cut off from the power (love) of God but gets it through God’s children worshiping them instead. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-a-naked-woman-tied-up-or-guy-if-you-prefer/676855/86 "2013-12-24T23:57:27Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > But what REALLY confuses me is how any of this has anything at all to do with a woman tied up in the woods!!! 😕 😕 😕 Ignoring your above conjecture that Christ and Satan are the same entity as that would be very complex (and they both are a child of God so to some extent you are correct) What it has to do with the OP is the Law vs morality. The 2 paths people have to chose from. If a hard written code works, or a hard written code can not work. The main point since satan’s kingdom is based on the law and demons defend themselves via the law, if demons violate the law they are accountable that the person has a claim to be set free. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-a-naked-woman-tied-up-or-guy-if-you-prefer/676855/87 "2013-12-25T00:19:26Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > To me Arch Angels are the parents of Angels, Angles are the parents of humans (though there are some cross breads i.e. Nephlium). Demons are angels cut off from God, The devil, AKA Satan is a Arch angle cut off from God. > > Love was suppose to flow from higher to lower from God to higher levels of angels I can’t yet imagine, to Arch angels, to angels to people. That was God’s plan > > Satan, the Devil turned this around where the children of the earth flowed love up to demons and they to Satan. So Satan and his angels are cut off from the power (love) of God but gets it through God’s children worshiping them instead. To utilize your nomenclature, and to ground this argument solely in the realm of Biblical mythology, you are correct that demons are fallen angels. However, it’s entirely untrue that demons/Satan are “cut off from God” – how else would Satan have tempted Jesus in the wilderness? (Matthew 4:1-11) How else would God & Satan made that sinister pact in the Book of Job, to screw with God’s most loyal follower? And be careful using the word “parent”, because that implies angels begat humans directly, when clearly in the first two books of Genesis the creation of Man was an act of God and God alone. As for love – well, stepping outside mythology for a second, I believe the angels & demons were no longer capable of love, and created mankind (by setting off the Big Bang and waiting for evolution to run its course) so they could receive our human love, which frankly is an extremely primitive emotion compared to the much more advanced & beyond our ken angelic pantheon. Demons (or devils) by definition cannot experience love, though they still serve an important purpose in maintaining Karmic Balance. Where it gets dicey is when a Rogue Angel (or Devil) chooses to abuse this Love Power and destroy the Yin-Yang for ultimate power and glory, which of course is impossible because the Universal Failsafe Switch will activate and either destroy said Angel (Devil) or allow the Time/Space Continuum itself to collapse and start over with a new Big Bang. It’s happened before and will likely happen again, though it’s probably pretty damn cool to watch from a safe distance. > [@kanicbird](#): > > What it has to do with the OP is the Law vs morality. The 2 paths people have to chose from. If a hard written code works, or a hard written code can not work. The main point since satan’s kingdom is based on the law and demons defend themselves via the law, if demons violate the law they are accountable that the person has a claim to be set free. Uh…okay… I guess you’re asking two different questions in the OP: (1) What is legal? and (2) What is moral? The legal question I think has been satisfactorily answered (depending entirely on whether or not the man/woman is of sound mind and is perfectly happy to be tied up and naked in the middle of nowhere.) The moral question (“if she doesn’t need to be rescued, should I fuck her?”) is a bit more thorny and is less easily answered. Think that one can go either way. Oh, and by the way, our human code of laws was invented by Hammurabi – not demons. FYI. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-a-naked-woman-tied-up-or-guy-if-you-prefer/676855.md?page=4)