# Finding food on Earth millions or billions of years ago **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 25, 2018, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-food-on-earth-millions-or-billions-of-years-ago/809509 "2018-02-25T00:11:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-food-on-earth-millions-or-billions-of-years-ago/809509/21 "2018-02-27T22:35:21Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The earliest organisms may not have produced all the nutrients needed to sustain a human long term. Most vitamins and other necessary nutrients are actually pretty fundamental parts of metabolic pathways common to all life and go way back there. As mentioned, vitamin B12 is produced by cyanobacteria, which go back more than 3 billion years. It plays a role in DNA synthesis. Bacteria make most of these essential nutrients themselves; other life forms have lost the capacity. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-food-on-earth-millions-or-billions-of-years-ago/809509/22 "2018-02-27T22:45:32Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Most vitamins and other necessary nutrients are actually pretty fundamental parts of metabolic pathways common to all life and go way back there. As mentioned, vitamin B12 is produced by cyanobacteria, which go back more than 3 billion years. It plays a role in DNA synthesis. Bacteria make most of these essential nutrients themselves; other life forms have lost the capacity. Ok, that makes some sense. The more advanced organisms depended on the bacteria for the nutrients. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-food-on-earth-millions-or-billions-of-years-ago/809509/23 "2018-02-27T22:50:59Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Ok, that makes some sense. The more advanced organisms depended on the bacteria for the nutrients. Higher organisms have lost the capacity to make these nutrients because they are expensive to make but also so easy to get from bacteria and other organisms. If you have anything like a natural diet you should get enough vitamins etc. It’s only when we are subject to highly unnatural diets that vitamin deficiencies start to show up. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-food-on-earth-millions-or-billions-of-years-ago/809509/24 "2018-02-27T23:03:25Z")
If B12 is necessary for all organisms, why don’t plant foods contain significant levels of it? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-food-on-earth-millions-or-billions-of-years-ago/809509/25 "2018-02-28T01:26:39Z")
How far back do you have to go before you start running the risk of organisms that have different amino acids or different DNA codes for amino acids than what life has now? Eventually aren’t you going to risk a world where the essential amino acids aren’t in existence? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-food-on-earth-millions-or-billions-of-years-ago/809509/26 "2018-02-28T02:07:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If B12 is necessary for all organisms, why don’t plant foods contain significant levels of it? Good point. I retract my statement that it is generally necessary. I don’t know why exactly animals need it but plants apparently don’t. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > How far back do you have to go before you start running the risk of organisms that have different amino acids or different DNA codes for amino acids than what life has now? Eventually aren’t you going to risk a world where the essential amino acids aren’t in existence? All life on Earth uses the same amino acids and the same DNA codes for them (with perhaps some minor exceptions). Therefore they will be present a least as far back as the origin of procaryotes (bacteria and archaea) about 3.8 billion years ago. It’s conceivable that at some point there could have been life forms that used different amino acids and codes but no evidence of it has survived. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-food-on-earth-millions-or-billions-of-years-ago/809509/27 "2018-02-28T02:50:47Z")
Of course, for purposes of us eating them, a different genetic code wouldn’t matter, just so long as they have the same aminos. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-food-on-earth-millions-or-billions-of-years-ago/809509/28 "2018-02-28T03:27:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Of course, for purposes of us eating them, a different genetic code wouldn’t matter, just so long as they have the same aminos. True. However mitochondria have a slightly different genetic code than other cellular organisms, and I’m wondering if you go far back enough are you in an age where amino acids that no longer exist were in use (that our body may substitute for the correct amino acids, causing deformed proteins), or the essential amino acids we can’t make ourselves and have to get from diet hadn’t become universal yet in life forms. That may be hypothetical, since there is no fossil record. ---
**Author:** ![mmmiiikkkeee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@mmmiiikkkeee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmmiiikkkeee)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-food-on-earth-millions-or-billions-of-years-ago/809509/29 "2018-02-28T03:50:03Z")
> [@pattypatty](#): > > There are two things it is necessary to take into account: the difference between our mouth and teeth structure and their one. I don’t think our teeth are strong enough to eat/cut/crumble their food. Second the difference between our and their digestive system. I think we would have serious problems with digestion and, perhaps, even with survival. The OP said we’re assuming complete knowledge of the life available at the time we go to, and unlimited hunt/gather supplies including cooking apparatuses. So we’re not relying on being able to use our bare hands and teeth to rip apart/chew/digest raw ferns anymore than we chew up raw potatoes today. We’d know what kind of plants/animals are around, and have the means to process (cut up/cook) them at least crudely. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-food-on-earth-millions-or-billions-of-years-ago/809509/30 "2018-02-28T07:15:59Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Good point. I retract my statement that it is generally necessary. I don’t know why exactly animals need it but plants apparently don’t. They have [different metabolic pathways](https://www.quora.com/Where-do-plants-and-fungi-obtain-vitamin-B12-from/answer/Frank-Hollis) for the two reactions B12 (co-)catalyses. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-food-on-earth-millions-or-billions-of-years-ago/809509/31 "2018-02-28T15:31:38Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > They have [different metabolic pathways](https://www.quora.com/Where-do-plants-and-fungi-obtain-vitamin-B12-from/answer/Frank-Hollis) for the two reactions B12 (co-)catalyses. Thank you. That clarifies the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-food-on-earth-millions-or-billions-of-years-ago/809509/32 "2018-02-28T15:51:56Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > It’s conceivable that at some point there could have been life forms that used different amino acids and codes but no evidence of it has survived. I’ve seen speculation (in Peter Douglas Ward’s _Life As We Do Not Know It_) that the earliest organisms may have had only a two-letter codon, based on clues in [codon degeneracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=850207) (such as all GCs, CGs, GGs, CUs, CCs, UCs, ACs and GUs each coading for the same amino acid no matter what the third letter is.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-food-on-earth-millions-or-billions-of-years-ago/809509.md?page=1)