# Finding water with coat hangers
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954
**Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
**Created:** [October 21, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954 "2008-10-21T21:55:24Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@atoyot92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atoyot92)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954/1 "2008-10-21T21:55:24Z")
I just thought I would let you know that you were dead wrong on a post you put on here a long while ago. You said that this is a scam. Well I am here to tell you that it is the truth. My Grand Father owned a septic buisiness and he used them all the time to lacate pipes and tanks. I worked with him for years and learned how to do it also. So here is my challenge to you. If you are not a believer then, I am willing to show you. I can locate water lines, septic tanks, etc. Send me an email and lets see what we can do for me to prove it too you.
atoyot92
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2008, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954/2 "2008-10-21T22:15:55Z")
Water’s all over the place, which makes it easy to find. Find a place where there _isn’t_ water, and then we’ll talk.
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### Author:  [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2008, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954/3 "2008-10-21T22:36:14Z")
Demonstrate this ability to some credible people (read: scientists), get written up in a few journals, and take the Randi challenge before 2010, and you can make yourself a cool million bucks.
Seriously, nobody has _ever_ demonstrated dowsing under laboratory conditions in front of scientists. With James Randi waving money since (if I recall correctly) the 60’s, starting with a thousand dollars and working its way up to the current million, it’s pretty clear that dowsing is raw bunk. If your grandfather could actually do it, he’d be a wealthy man.
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### Author:  [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954/4 "2008-10-21T22:41:46Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#):
>
> Demonstrate this ability to some credible people (read: scientists), get written up in a few journals, and take the Randi challenge before 2010, and you can make yourself a cool million bucks.
>
> Seriously, nobody has _ever_ demonstrated dowsing under laboratory conditions in front of scientists. With James Randi waving money since (if I recall correctly) the 60’s, starting with a thousand dollars and working its way up to the current million, it’s pretty clear that dowsing is raw bunk. If your grandfather could actually do it, he’d be a wealthy man.
As a small boy I was able to douse, both with sticks and with small pieces of bent metal. I don’t know if it was detecting water, but the sticks would move by themselves, not down (which seems just silly to me) but side to side or up.
I can’t imagine how it would be measurable.
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### Author:  [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2008, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954/5 "2008-10-21T22:55:52Z")
> [@gurujulp](#):
>
> As a small boy I was able to douse, both with sticks and with small pieces of bent metal. I don’t know if it was detecting water, but the sticks would move by themselves, not down (which seems just silly to me) but side to side or up.
>
> I can’t imagine how it would be measurable.
ISTM that putting the stick/metal into a device that can measure a change in it’s angle would be pretty easy.
But anyways, how 'bout a link to the original article.
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### Author:  [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2008, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954/6 "2008-10-21T23:01:29Z")
I bet can do this too. I’d grab a coat hangar and then go find the guy in charge of Water & Sewer and threaten to poke his eyes out with the coat hangar unless he tells me the locations of all the water lines in the city.
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### Author:  [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2008, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954/7 "2008-10-21T23:16:56Z")
> [@gurujulp](#):
>
> I don’t know if it was detecting water, but the sticks would move by themselves, not down (which seems just silly to me) but side to side or up.
>
> I can’t imagine how it would be measurable.
People used to believe that about Ouija Boards, too. It’s YOU that’s moving the stick, not the other way around.
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### Author:  [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2008, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954/8 "2008-10-21T23:22:32Z")
[Link to the article on dowsing.](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/159/does-dowsing-for-water-really-work)
**atoyot92** , if you’re honest and want to challenge people to prove dowsing works, then screw challenging Cecil. I mean, you don’t even say what you want from Cecil if you’re right, and I can guarantee he won’t be willing to give you much.
Skip directly to the big time, and take [James Randi’s challenge](http://www.randi.org/joom/challenge-info.html). Its worth a cool million bucks, and that’s got to be worth your time if you’re as confident as you seem.
Before send in the application, though, you might want to take a look [at how some previous dowsers did.](http://www.randi.org/library/dowsing/)
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2008, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954/9 "2008-10-22T07:27:27Z")
> [@paperbackwriter](#):
>
> [Link to the article on dowsing.](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/159/does-dowsing-for-water-really-work)
>
> **atoyot92** , if you’re honest and want to challenge people to prove dowsing works, then screw challenging Cecil. I mean, you don’t even say what you want from Cecil if you’re right, and I can guarantee he won’t be willing to give you much.
>
> Skip directly to the big time, and take [James Randi’s challenge](http://www.randi.org/joom/challenge-info.html). Its worth a cool million bucks, and that’s got to be worth your time if you’re as confident as you seem.
>
> Before send in the application, though, you might want to take a look [at how some previous dowsers did.](http://www.randi.org/library/dowsing/)
You might also want to read about [the Idiomotor Effect.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiomotor_effect)
---
### Author:  [@atoyot92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atoyot92)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2008, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954/10 "2008-10-22T14:16:01Z")
> [@paperbackwriter](#):
>
> [Link to the article on dowsing.](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/159/does-dowsing-for-water-really-work)
>
> **atoyot92** , if you’re honest and want to challenge people to prove dowsing works, then screw challenging Cecil. I mean, you don’t even say what you want from Cecil if you’re right, and I can guarantee he won’t be willing to give you much.
>
> Skip directly to the big time, and take [James Randi’s challenge](http://www.randi.org/joom/challenge-info.html). Its worth a cool million bucks, and that’s got to be worth your time if you’re as confident as you seem.
>
> Before send in the application, though, you might want to take a look [at how some previous dowsers did.](http://www.randi.org/library/dowsing/)
OK Just so we are clear I never said that I can go out in the desert and find water 4 miles down that will give 800 gallons an hour. I am simply stating that I can find water lines in the ground. For example I can go into somones yard and find where thier septic system is just by using those rods. I can measure out the drain field and show them where thier tanks are. I dont know if the other is possible or not I just know what I was taught and that I can do it. I do not know what the scientific reason for it is, I just know what I can do.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2008, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954/11 "2008-10-22T14:23:34Z")
> [@atoyot92](#):
>
> OK Just so we are clear I never said that I can go out in the desert and find water 4 miles down that will give 800 gallons an hour. I am simply stating that I can find water lines in the ground. For example I can go into somones yard and find where thier septic system is just by using those rods. I can measure out the drain field and show them where thier tanks are. I dont know if the other is possible or not I just know what I was taught and that I can do it. I do not know what the scientific reason for it is, I just know what I can do.
Again, if you can find hidden tanks of water, or underground pipes with water in them, you would certainly qualify for James Randi’s Million Dollar Challenge. Would you like to earn an easy million?
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### Author:  [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954/12 "2008-10-22T17:26:23Z")
> [@gurujulp](#):
>
> As a small boy I was able to douse, both with sticks and with small pieces of bent metal. I don’t know if it was detecting water, but the sticks would move by themselves, not down (which seems just silly to me) but side to side or up.
>
> I can’t imagine how it would be measurable.
If you can’t imagine how it would be measurable, then how do you know the effect exists? It doesn’t take much imagination to measure the movement of the sticks or pieces of metal. It doesn’t take much imagination to independently verify the location of the water so it can be correlated with the movement of the sticks or pieces of metal.
PS No, I do not believe in dousing.
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### Author:  [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954/13 "2008-10-22T17:59:39Z")
> [@atoyot92](#):
>
> .. My Grand Father owned a septic buisiness and he used them all the time to lacate pipes and tanks. I worked with him for years and learned how to do it also. .. I am willing to show you. I can locate water lines, septic tanks.
I’d like to see it. I’m in WI. PM or e-mail me and maybe I could arrange a viewing?
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### Author:  [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2008, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954/14 "2008-10-22T18:10:16Z")
> [@atoyot92](#):
>
> For example I can go into somones yard and find where thier septic system is just by using those rods. I can measure out the drain field and show them where thier tanks are.
I can do that for many houses without any sticks or wires, the clues are visible to anyone. The placement of spetic tanks and leach fields is pretty standard and the yards are laid out accordingly. Even if we accept your story it really doesn’t prove what you think it proves.
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### Author:  [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954/15 "2008-10-22T19:24:48Z")
The late Erma Bombeck said, in a book of the same name, that _The Grass Is Always Greener Over The Septic Tank._
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### Author:  [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954/16 "2008-10-22T19:25:27Z")
> [@atoyot92](#):
>
> I am simply stating that I can find water lines in the ground. For example I can go into somones yard and find where thier septic system is just by using those rods.
This is exactly what was tested in the largest controlled trial of dowsing to date: presence or absence of running water in a shallow pipe.
[Description of the test setup.](http://www.randi.org/pdf/swift1-1.pdf)Warning PDFarticle starts on page 3
[Test results.](http://www.randi.org/pdf/swift1-2.pdf)Warning PDFarticle starts on page 4
Summary: the dowsers, all of whom agreed the test was fair and there were no interfering influences, did no better than expected by chance.
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### Author:  [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954/17 "2008-10-22T19:39:37Z")
I would like to see it, ot sounds interesting.
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### Author:  [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2008, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954/18 "2008-10-22T19:45:45Z")
> [@atoyot92](#):
>
> I just thought I would let you know that you were dead wrong on a post you put on here a long while ago. You said that this is a scam.
I think most dousers are scamming themselves, not intentionally deceiving others.
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### Author:  [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954/19 "2008-10-22T19:53:01Z")
> [@atoyot92](#):
>
> My Grand Father owned a septic buisiness and he used them all the time to **lacate** pipes and tanks.
Finding regular water pipes – easy. Finding water pipes with **milk** in them – priceless.
---
### Author:  [@dinoboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dinoboy)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2008, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954/20 "2008-10-23T23:10:07Z")
The Australian Skeptic’s Society has done at least [one very good challenge on Water Diviners’ ability](http://www.skeptics.com.au/articles/divining.htm) (pretty sure it is an annual, or at least occasional, event - but the outcome is always the same as far as I know)
[Here is James Randi’s video](http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7461912885649996034) of a visit there…
To concur with many here: Dowsing is not an “ability” so much as a misunderstanding of otherwise natural effects that, along with an individual’s bias ([and other common errors in reasoning](http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/sherm3.htm)), appears to correlate with an intended outcome.
Though I can appreciate that “dowsers” believe in their ability and therefore honestly buy into this phenomenon, they only have their own anecdotal claims; it has yet to be substantiated with consistent, verifiable results.
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finding-water-with-coat-hangers/468954.md?page=2)