# Fine dining-- kind of a scam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** food-cooking\ **Created:** [April 28, 2026, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618 "2026-04-28T11:28:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2026, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618/21 "2026-04-28T13:52:13Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > [Note there is actually no such thing as “sea bass”; it can be a lot of actual species, such as cod or toothfish, which in the latter case yeah isn’t exactly the most marketable name.] Yep, usually Patagonian Toothfish, I believe. Some restaurant marketeur at some point decided that that wasn’t a very appetizing name, renamed it ‘Chilean Sea Bass’ and the name stuck. Personally, I think ‘Patagonian Toothfish’ is an _awesome_ name for an entree fish. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2026, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618/22 "2026-04-28T14:16:24Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > As a separate matter, there is so much competition around here for the expensive dining dollar that a place with disappointing quality of food (mushy flavorless “risotto” that’s just rice with a pretentious name) dies quickly. > > I don’t know where the OP lives, but I think they found a restaurant that will adapt or die; they’re doing it wrong now. Trying to deliver an true upscale experience at a upper-mid-market price point in many areas is simply a no-hope proposition for the restaurantuer. Although they usually don’t realize that when they open. In those areas there aren’t enough people willing to spend like that often enough to make it go. And they end up skimping on ingredients or chef skill or service personnel to try to make ends meet. It (probably) won’t work. I agree. I don’t often go to fine dining establishments but I do on occasion. The ones with small portions or poor quality food do tend to die simply because there are plenty of other establishments in that niche who serve normal portions of good quality. There is also the other end of the spectrum, which is where once-legendary establishments fail to adapt and either start cutting corners or just generally stop caring about quality because, after all, they are [name of famous establishment] and who are we to complain about them? I can report, for example, that tea at the Ritz in London has become a mediocre and overpriced affair aimed entirely at tourists (go to the Wolseley next door instead - they are _amazing_). Or you can read [Jay Rayner’s infamous review of Paris’ Georges V restaurant _Le Cinq_](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/apr/09/le-cinq-paris-restaurant-review-jay-rayner). Safe to say that he did not enjoy his experience there. So is fine dining a scam? On rare occasion, perhaps (especially if they try tacking extra unannounced service charges onto the bill), but more often you’ll just get a duff restaurant. Chalk it up to experience and check the recent reviews for new places before you go. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2026, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618/23 "2026-04-28T14:20:14Z")
One other point that just occurred to me. > [@solost](#): > > I ordered the ‘Chilean Sea Bass on a Bed of Broccoli Rabe’ from the special menu-- highly recommended by the waiter, The waitstaff ought to know about portion sizes. And know which dishes are large or small or benefit from another course or sides ordered as well. Of course there’s a delicate dance there about not insulting the experienced fine diner who already knows the e.g. 6oz filet mignon comes solo on an otherwise bare but huge plate, versus the folks more used to e.g. Longhorn or Texas Roadhouse where potatoes, vegetables, etc., are included, and there’s no bare plate surface to be seen. But good waitstaff should be able to anticipate a disappointment coming and diplomatically offer a helpful corrective. “Our daily specials are deliberately rather small to not overwhelm the total experience. If you’re a light eater you’ll love it. If you’re looking for a more substantial meal you might accompany this with our steamed mussels appetizer or the vegetarian carpaccio with pickled squid brains blah blah blah, etc., etc., etc.” That they did not (that we here know of) offer some advice is another strike that this place is still in the learning phase. Whether they actually learn is a different question only the future knows. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2026, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618/24 "2026-04-28T14:20:21Z")
> [@solost](#): > > But when the waiter said the Sea Bass came on a ‘bed’ of broccoli rabe, I expected a human-sized portion of vegetable matter. Basically what I got was an appetizer-sized piece of fish with a tiny smattering of vegetables that were basically a garnish. Well, it _had_ to be a tiny amount of broccoli Raab. Otherwise the “bed” would be lumpy and the fish made uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2026, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618/25 "2026-04-28T14:21:01Z")
Are you saying he got Raabed? ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2026, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618/26 "2026-04-28T14:21:17Z")
OP, you’re in Chicago? At least you didn’t have this happen (caution: language): [Scene from the Bear](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfFdqoqu57k) > [@solost](#): > > Personally, I think ‘Patagonian Toothfish’ is an _awesome_ name for an entree fish. I agree, but one can understand why they renamed “slimehead” to “orange roughy”. And of course, no thread with this topic is complete without a link to the [famous review of the worst Michelin star restaurant ever](https://www.everywhereist.com/2021/12/bros-restaurant-lecce-we-eat-at-the-worst-michelin-starred-restaurant-ever/). ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2026, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618/27 "2026-04-28T14:28:50Z")
Wow. I thought the Le Cinq review was bad but I nearly threw up a little in my mouth (appropriately enough) when I read the part about the plaster cast at Bros. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2026, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618/28 "2026-04-28T14:33:44Z")
Here’s her [followup article](https://www.everywhereist.com/2021/12/what-we-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-food/) where she talks about the restuarant’s response to the original article. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2026, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618/29 "2026-04-28T14:49:33Z")
> [@solost](#): > > Risotto, for one, is supposed to be al dente like pasta, with a little bite to it, not mushy. Few things drive me crazier than overcooked risotto. I don’t eat out much at all anymore, but I’ve rarely had risotto that was cooked to what I would consider the correct consistency. I have the same issue with pasta, in general, at a lot of red sauce places. The fine dining place I’ve been to a couple of times, though, always nailed it, thankfully. They probably had a good risotto, too, but I never tried it. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2026, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618/30 "2026-04-28T14:49:57Z")
To the OP, that definitely sounds like a sub-par restaurant trying to hide small portions behind presentation. I also think that they, depending on the competition in the area, will be one of the many failed restaurants. Especially with seafood, the higher up you get in fine dining, I’ve noticed that seafood mains get smaller and try to hide among compensating sides and starches. One recent place I went to for a cioppino had a grand total of just 4 mussels on top of a huge bow of vegetable stew. There is good fine dining out there, but I’m sorry that you encountered the bad, and you shouldn’t have to second guess yourself with snooty rationalizations coming from others that imply you just don’t understand fine dining. Bad is bad. ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2026, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618/31 "2026-04-28T15:08:26Z")
I guess that my impression of “fine dining” is when I see a 12-inch plate with an item the size of a slider in the middle surrounded by fancy squiggle, so maybe 1 or 2 bites for, say, $100 ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2026, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618/32 "2026-04-28T15:13:54Z")
RE: your 'eat with your eye" comment. Wasn’t there post recently about trend, I think Scandinavian, where food is prepared like artwork? Looks great, but who wants to destroy it by actually “consuming” it after all that work that went into it? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2026, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618/33 "2026-04-28T15:18:32Z")
I look at such things in the same light as those sand mandalas Buddhist monks spend hours making, only to sweep them away once complete. The ephemerality of the beauty is part of the art. If you don’t eat it, it will fall apart or otherwise lose its appearance soon anyway. Admire the appearance, and then admire the experience of eating it. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2026, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618/34 "2026-04-28T15:19:05Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Of course there’s a delicate dance there about not insulting the experienced fine diner who already knows the e.g. 6oz filet mignon comes solo on an otherwise bare but huge plate, versus the folks more used to e.g. Longhorn or Texas Roadhouse where potatoes, vegetables, etc., are included, and there’s no bare plate surface to be seen. Yeah, again, I may not frequent ‘fine dining’ establishments too often, but I wasn’t some rube expecting a ‘Texas Roadhouse’ style experience with a plate loaded up with inexpensive sides and starches, or a ‘bottomless breadstick’ Olive Garden-style experience. And the small portion size of the fish wasn’t even so much of a problem as the lack of a veg. I was expecting a ‘bed’ of broccoli rabe, not a few flecks of green on the plate. What I got was an entree that cost something like $56 which was basically an appetizer-sized piece of fish on a plate with a bit of garnish and some sauce. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > Well, it _had_ to be a tiny amount of broccoli Raab. Otherwise the “bed” would be lumpy and the fish made uncomfortable. > [@Gyrate](#): > > Are you saying he got Raabed? Nice 😄 > [@muldoonthief](#): > > OP, you’re in Chicago? No, the greater Metro Detroit area. I said I mentioned to my wife we should maybe try a Michelin-starred restaurant sometime just to get an idea what _ **real** _ fine dining is, of which the closest for us would be in Chicago. I’m thinking we take a nice weekend trip out to Chi-Town, maybe hit a place like Smyth. Looks like a G-spot for dinner for two of us with drinks, so it’ll take some convincing to get my wife to go, but I want to try a 2 or 3 Michelin star restaurant. > **[Smyth | New American Restaurant in Chicago, IL](https://www.smythchicago.com/)** > > Three-Michelin-starred Smyth, only one of 14 restaurants in the country honored with such a distinction, journeys creatively to the corners of the country to elevate the North American farmers, fishermen, purveyors and makers in food today who... ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2026, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618/35 "2026-04-28T15:33:02Z")
> [@fedman1](#): > > I guess that my impression of “fine dining” is when I see a 12-inch plate with an item the size of a slider in the middle surrounded by fancy squiggle, so maybe 1 or 2 bites for, say, $100 I think it’s reasonable with a 12-course meal: [Mirazur x El Bullí Meal Photos - Dining and Cooking](https://www.diningandcooking.com/2613906/mirazur-x-el-bulli-meal-photos/) I have been to dinners where there were so many courses that you had no choice but to eat those kinds of portions, despite how much was on your plate, otherwise you would never make it to the end of the meal. Would you rather have everything set out for you just so, or eat a few bites each time and watch them take away a nearly full plate? Not that I am implying that was what the OP was in for. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2026, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618/36 "2026-04-28T15:38:12Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > And of course, no thread with this topic is complete without a link to the [famous review of the worst Michelin star restaurant ever](https://www.everywhereist.com/2021/12/bros-restaurant-lecce-we-eat-at-the-worst-michelin-starred-restaurant-ever/). > [@muldoonthief](#): > > Here’s her [followup article](https://www.everywhereist.com/2021/12/what-we-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-food/) where she talks about the restuarant’s response to the original article. Oh yeah, that first article is a classic. That photo of the plaster cast of the mouth with the sickly-looking ‘citrus foam’ is the stuff of nightmares. I don’t think I ever read the follow-up article-- looking forward to that when I have more time. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2026, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618/37 "2026-04-28T15:41:57Z")
There is such a thing as bad art. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2026, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618/38 "2026-04-28T15:42:46Z")
I’m by no means a gourmet, and I fully recognize that I can be an unreasonably picky and unadventurous eater. But even I enjoy going to a fine dining restaurant, where I know that whatever I eat will be made from good ingredients, be well-prepared, and be delicious…as well as the fact that the service will be excellent, the server will be able to give smart recommendations, and the atmosphere will be conducive to an enjoyable evening out with friends or relatives. I agree with the others who feel that the OP and his wife either went to a not-great restaurant, or caught them on a not-great evening. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2026, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618/39 "2026-04-28T16:05:07Z")
> [@solost](#): > > As for whether fine dining is just not for us, my wife often says she’s spoiled by the quality of my cooking. And with no false modesty, I enjoy cooking and I am really good at it. So I feel like there’s this spectrum for us when it comes to dining: Same here. And overcooking fish at those prices is unforgivable. I would have sent it back. There are decent restaurants here, but it’s nearly impossible to get in unless you book a month or more out. Sadly, a lot of people in this neck o’ the woods equate quantity with quality, and drowning things in a sauce or in cheese is the norm. There are steak houses that are good, but you need a bank loan to eat there. That leaves ethnic restaurants, of which there are many, and many of which are very good. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2026, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618/40 "2026-04-28T18:48:45Z")
Here’s a [Today Show article](https://www.today.com/food/brutal-review-michelin-starred-restaurant-bros-goes-viral-t242696) that contains the chef’s response letter as well. You should probably read that before the followup. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-kind-of-a-scam/1029618.md?page=3)