# Fine dining restaurants - are they worth it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 17, 2008, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-restaurants-are-they-worth-it/433837 "2008-01-17T06:42:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![WILLASS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/54ee81/32.png) [@WILLASS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WILLASS)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-restaurants-are-they-worth-it/433837/81 "2008-01-23T16:37:58Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] For my own part, the thing that prompted me to start trying the more “out-there” foods (tongue, marrow, etc) was a recognition that _that’s what the chefs themselves were eating._ [/QUOTE] This is a very astute observation… I just think that if I’m going to be eating out at a top end place (I’m talking the once maybe twice a year type place) and paying a lot more money than your standard mid-range meal then I want to try the weird and the wonderful prepared by a genius. If you go to a Michelin starred resaurant you _know_ the chef will only be serving the best and if that includes lots of cuts you aren’t used to maybe that’s telling us something? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-restaurants-are-they-worth-it/433837/82 "2008-01-23T16:51:40Z")
Telling us what? That he thinks of himself as an _artiste_? No thank you. It’s entirely possible to create new and innovative dishes without resorting to scrap meats and dog food. Check out the menu at [Mesa Grill](http://www.mesagrill.com/lasvegas/), for example. Not an weird cut in sight, but magnificent food. Almost as good as that BBQ place **Little Nemo** mentioned. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![WILLASS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/54ee81/32.png) [@WILLASS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WILLASS)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-restaurants-are-they-worth-it/433837/83 "2008-01-23T17:05:00Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] Telling us what? That he thinks of himself as an _artiste_? No thank you. It’s entirely possible to create new and innovative dishes without resorting to scrap meats and dog food. Check out the menu at [Mesa Grill](http://www.mesagrill.com/lasvegas/), for example. Not an weird cut in sight, but magnificent food. Almost as good as that BBQ place **Little Nemo** mentioned. 😃 [/QUOTE] No, nothing worse than a chef who thinks they are an artiste - they should be cooking food not making art. I meant that what he may be telling us is that the ‘best’ cuts of meat aren’t always the tastiest. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-restaurants-are-they-worth-it/433837/84 "2008-01-23T17:06:12Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] scrap meats and dog food. [/QUOTE] Do you really not understand that we like the stuff? And people used to call short ribs and oxtrails scrap meat, and those are some of the most flavorful and delicious cuts. Or even skirt steak. Skirt steak here is no longer a cheap cut. BBQ is mostly made with cuts that are very cheap because they are tough and take time to prepare well (see brisket and shoulder). And filet mignon tastes like nothing. I don’t understand the point of it. Ribeye, please. And, once again, I really don’t think anything even close to the majority of dishes at upscale restaurants are offal, or whatever you’d consider “scrap meats and dog food.” I think you’re arguing a straw man. For example, I’m looking at Alinea’s 23-course menu, and I see one course with roe, one with sweetbread, one with foie gras, and one with pork belly. I don’t particularly think any of those are odd, but there’s nothing else on the menu that’s from any “weird” parts of the animal or anything. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-restaurants-are-they-worth-it/433837/85 "2008-01-23T17:08:25Z")
[QUOTE=WILLASS] No, nothing worse than a chef who thinks they are an artiste - they should be cooking food not making art. [/QUOTE] I think there’s definitely room for people who do both. I’ve never had the opportunity to eat in one of those really modern haute cuisine places, but there’s certainly a place for chefs and diners alike who like to meld artisanship and artistry. ---
**Author:** ![WILLASS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/54ee81/32.png) [@WILLASS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WILLASS)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-restaurants-are-they-worth-it/433837/86 "2008-01-23T17:18:43Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] It’s entirely possible to create new and innovative dishes without resorting to scrap meats and dog food. [/QUOTE] I think that you have it stuck in your head that anything other than fillet steak and chicken breast is somehow an off cut of inedible rubbish. I disagree (as do a lot of other people it seems) strongly with this - why is calves liver any less (or more) a prime cut than fillet steak? Surely food is about the taste? I _prefer_ the taste of onglet (hangar steak) to filet mignon and have paid a similar price for it in a Bistro in London _because I prefer the taste_. I’m not being pretentious I am eating what tastes good to me, how is this hard to understand? ---
**Author:** ![WILLASS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/54ee81/32.png) [@WILLASS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WILLASS)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-restaurants-are-they-worth-it/433837/87 "2008-01-23T17:20:05Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] I think there’s definitely room for people who do both. I’ve never had the opportunity to eat in one of those really modern haute cuisine places, but there’s certainly a place for chefs and diners alike who like to meld artisanship and artistry. [/QUOTE] Yes, I agree there is a place for both but ONLY if the food is good - as long as the taste is there then the artistry is (for me) a happy addition. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-restaurants-are-they-worth-it/433837/88 "2008-01-23T17:52:32Z")
[QUOTE=WILLASS] I’m not being pretentious I am eating what tastes good to me, how is this hard to understand? [/QUOTE] Not hard to understand at all, and that’s not what I’m saying. (Actually, it might be what I’m saying, but it’s not what I mean. 😃 ) Hell, I love short ribs. My mom’s recipe would bring tears of joy to your eyes. But if you read a lot of food writers, when they talk of 3 star restaurants and the like, regular food never gets mentioned. It’s always the “chef’s specialties,” which are almost always garp. When the chefs start showing off, they seem to always go for the dog food. The French and French-inspired seem to be the worst at this. It may be the fault of the food writers, but I’ve seen enough menus to think it isn’t. There is also a big difference between comparing different cuts of meat (filet mignon, which is almost flavorless, and skirt steak, which is delicious) and completely different parts of the cow (offal and the like). The former is a pleasant disagreement over food. The latter is just…wrong. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-restaurants-are-they-worth-it/433837/89 "2008-01-23T19:22:20Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] When the chefs start showing off, they seem to always go for the dog food. [/QUOTE] Are you completely, totally, entirely unwilling even to entertain the possibility that some of this stuff might taste really good? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-restaurants-are-they-worth-it/433837/90 "2008-01-23T20:31:53Z")
No. But I’m willing to give you odds. 😃 _Taste is the enemy of creativeness_. - Pablo Picasso ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-restaurants-are-they-worth-it/433837/91 "2008-01-23T22:01:51Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] But if you read a lot of food writers, when they talk of 3 star restaurants and the like, regular food never gets mentioned. It’s always the “chef’s specialties,” which are almost always garp. When the chefs start showing off, they seem to always go for the dog food. The French and French-inspired seem to be the worst at this. It may be the fault of the food writers, but I’ve seen enough menus to think it isn’t. [/QUOTE] Here is a [review](http://www.andyhayler.com/show_restaurant.asp?id=152&country=USA)for the French Laundry, a 3 Michelin star restaurant in Napa county. Care to point out the “dog food”? Perhaps you’re just unfamiliar with the vocabulary. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-restaurants-are-they-worth-it/433837/92 "2008-01-24T05:34:18Z")
I’ve never eaten in a haute restaurant… only mid-range fine dining. The sad part about using the french laundry as a standard, is that I know I will never rate to get in there, let alone be able to afford a tasting menu. Never to be enjoyed. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-restaurants-are-they-worth-it/433837/93 "2008-01-24T12:10:33Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] For the record, this past Saturday, I went to a higher-end place here in Seattle and spent $100 on a dinner for one. This was somewhere I’d not been, but that had something of a rep among Northwest foodies, so I’d been interested in trying it for a while. $100 was too much. It was pretty much what the nay-sayers in this thread have been knocking “fine dining” for being: tiny portions, over-fancy presentation, middling ingredients, not much “there” there. It wasn’t _hugely_ overpriced; I’d say it was a $60-70 meal. But it wasn’t worth $100. We aren’t _totally_ blinded by the price tag, is all I’m sayin’. 😛 [/QUOTE] I had a similar experience a few months back. People were touting me on this faaabulous restaurant (it was more of an $80/head place…less than that since my husband doesn’t drink). The steak was a bit on the tough side. I was disappointed. We’re going to another local Nice Joint this weekend for our anniversary. I hope it isn’t suckworthy. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-restaurants-are-they-worth-it/433837/94 "2008-01-24T13:05:33Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] When the chefs start showing off, they seem to always go for the dog food. The French and French-inspired seem to be the worst at this. It may be the fault of the food writers, but I’ve seen enough menus to think it isn’t. [/QUOTE] For me, it’s about trying new and different things that I don’t have always have access to or know how to prepare. I like to cook, so I have prepared common cuts of beef, pork, chicken and lamb in all kinds of ways. When I go out, I want to try something different that I don’t know I could or would make myself. For that reason, I tend to go with the less mainstream menu choices. A big draw for going to more upscale rather than standard restaurants is that when I walk into a nice place, I’m not going to skim the menu and say, “I could make better, have had MUCH better, made better last week.” I’m no gourmet, but it’s annoying how often my husband and I go into a restaurant and know we could’ve had better at home. Also, you can tell when the food is good and when the kitchen’s just yanking your chain, just by trying it. We’ve gone to different “hot restaurants” and had our socks knocked off by some, while others were downright bad. Maybe I lack a sufficiently discriminating palate to appreciate and distinguish the finest ingredients, but it’s been fairly obvious when we’ve been dining in a place that’s trying to be edgy versus one where the chefs honestly love food. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-restaurants-are-they-worth-it/433837/95 "2008-01-24T13:13:36Z")
[QUOTE=devilsknew] I’ve never eaten in a haute restaurant… only mid-range fine dining. [/QUOTE] Same here. I’ve eaten at Fine Dining establishments, but have never- and probably will never- eaten at anywhere offering Haute Cuisine. I’m not good with “Weird” food- which means offal, tongues, brains, eyes, testicles, stomachs, or anything else along those lines- and so I’d rather eat somewhere that does a really good steak or a salmon dish in pleasant surroundings. I had someone try and tell me that Kangaroo was some kind of delicacy; my response was “You wouldn’t be so keen on it if you knew where it came from”. 😉 As to the OP: $500 seems extraordinarily expensive for meal, no matter how nice it is. Personally, I’d save the cash and explore the many small and nice eateries Melbourne has to offer, or maybe even fly to Sydney and eat there for an “Experience”- it would cost the same and you’d have an interesting story to go with your meal besides “I spent $500 on some restaurant most people have never heard of”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-dining-restaurants-are-they-worth-it/433837.md?page=4)