# Fine, fellow liberals, should I just give up now? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 9, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242 "2016-11-09T17:46:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242/21 "2016-11-10T01:50:04Z")
Humans have had to deal with climate change in the past. Empires and civilizations rise and fall. The sun also rises over North Korea, Nigeria and Aleppo Syria. Every day. Parents in Aleppo do indeed need to sit the children down and have a serious talk about things. Jump off a building? No. No need for that in order to realize and adapt to the reality of life in this universe. The United States was not always here, nor will it always be here. Nothing too drastic is going to happen soon, but it would be naive to think it never will. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242/22 "2016-11-10T02:06:19Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > It’s not doom and gloom to realize that we’re in for some pretty ridiculous shenanigans over the next few years. > > But who says you should give up? That Pit thread I mentioned, for one. Individual posts here and there. At the very least, they offer nothing but despair and hopelessness. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242/23 "2016-11-10T02:31:16Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > That Pit thread I mentioned, for one. Individual posts here and there. At the very least, they offer nothing but despair and hopelessness. Then they’ve got nothing to offer that I could use. Their mentality is not the one that gives us great movements for progress since they can’t countenance failures and casualties in losing a battle or a campaign of battles along the way. Although, I worry for those who feel personally terrorized and their well being. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242/24 "2016-11-10T03:37:19Z")
Call me naive but I don’t think it’ll impact climate change much. China is already the world leader in alternative energy investment. Western Europe puts a lot of money into it too. The US is just one of many countries that invests. Plus states and cities may step up to fill the leadership void left by the federal government. That is what happened under Bush. The states and cities tried to step up. As for health care, our system was on the brink of collapse anyway. Obama care was mostly unaffordable anyway. people had insurance but still can’t see a doctor. There are my big fears Trump starting a war or og forbid using nukes. Trump causing a recession or a depression Trump irreversibly destroying the reputation of America and its people who elected him Twenty million people losing their insurance ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242/25 "2016-11-10T16:17:35Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Call me naive but I don’t think it’ll impact climate change much. China is already the world leader in alternative energy investment. Western Europe puts a lot of money into it too. > > The US is just one of many countries that invests. Plus states and cities may step up to fill the leadership void left by the federal government. That is what happened under Bush. The states and cities tried to step up. For perspective, red, hydrocarbon producing Texas leads the US in wind power. American _people_ are embracing renewable energy. The Tesla Model 3 sold out long before the first car was built, and surely all of those customers weren’t Liberals. I see solar arrays popping up in the reddest of red areas. I’m not saying Trump is going to be the champion of climate change, but individuals (or even states) can still have an influence regardless of who the President is. > [@](#): > > There are my big fears > > Trump starting a war or og forbid using nukes. > Trump causing a recession or a depression > Trump irreversibly destroying the reputation of America and its people who elected him > Twenty million people losing their insurance To this list, I’d add alienating all our allies and leaving the US as an isolationist pariah - but I was trying to cheer Leaper up. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242/26 "2016-11-10T16:44:44Z")
Trump will not succeed in doing anything he says he will, without the practically unanimous consent of all the Republicans in Congress, and Trump is not at all in the Republican mainstream. Better heads will prevail, and better heads (a few of them) can even be found in Congress. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242/27 "2016-11-10T16:48:44Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Trump will not succeed in doing anything he says he will, without the practically unanimous consent of all the Republicans in Congress, and Trump is not at all in the Republican mainstream. Better heads will prevail, and better heads (a few of them) can even be found in Congress. From your lips to God’s ear. But that requires the better heads not be in mortal fear of being primaried by ruder heads. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242/28 "2016-11-10T17:22:41Z")
I’ve seen things zig and zag from liberal to conservative quite a bit over my life. Odd thing is the liberal zigs are always bigger/further than the conservative zags so what we have is an overall win. In other words, I’m not happy but my hand isn’t anywhere near the panic button yet. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242/29 "2016-11-10T19:00:52Z")
It’s all a matter of perspective. When the numbers are this close half the population is going to feel bad. All in all only about 25% of the US population voted for Clinton and 25% voted for Trump. Less than that voted in the primaries and put those two on the ballot to begin with. Look forward to the mid-term Congressional elections, the pendulum has been swinging pretty steadily from left to right and back again for decades now. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242/30 "2016-11-10T20:08:34Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > I’ve seen things zig and zag from liberal to conservative quite a bit over my life. **Odd thing is the liberal zigs are always bigger/further than the conservative zags so what we have is an overall win.** In other words, I’m not happy but my hand isn’t anywhere near the panic button yet. I just wanted to parse this, to make sure I’ve got it. 2 steps forward, one step back. The net gain is one step forward. Is that the idea? **Leaper** just give people some time to process this. People are already starting to wake up from the shock and begin to give thought to what we do next. Protests were a public expression of that, but hopefully that will translate into more useful political action as time marches on. All is not lost. Dems can be obstructionists too. There is a mid-term in 2 years. We can put a lot of pressure on our representatives in the meantime. Folks just need to wail and gnash their teeth a bit. Ignore them and move on. Or, you know, join us for a wake, then ignore us and move on. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242/31 "2016-11-10T20:10:03Z")
We managed through George W. Bush, so we’ll survive. I’ll probably be OK (though I might be hurt when the stock market tanks). But I’m concerned about the many people who won’t be. I have friends who could only get medical coverage under Obamacare; they’re going to be hit hard. I think in four years you’ll see a lot of buyer’s remorse. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242/32 "2016-11-10T21:14:20Z")
I’m optimistic too. Oh, not at what we’re currently dealing with, but just to take one issue like apathetic voters who stayed home this cycle, you can bet your sweet bippy that won’t happen next go 'round. And I believe republicans turnout will remain about the same. So, we’ve got to wade through the muck to galvanize the party. Long term, I feel that’ll be worth more than anything that’s happening at the moment. Then the results will be bigly! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242/33 "2016-11-10T21:16:54Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I get the emotion of the moment. Seriously, I do. I feel it myself. > > But reading what fellow liberals are saying, and not just here, it makes me wonder whether they expect me to go on. Either I’ll die in a nuclear holocaust, outside a hospital for lack of insurance, in a Christian concentration camp, or under ten feet of water as the tides roll in, and there’s nothing I can do but wait for it to claim me and everyone I love. > > Like I said, I get anxiety. I get frustration, disappointment, despair. But I’m also getting kind of tired of them. Again, I understand emotion of the moment, but when you say that no one will care about people dying for lack of insurance, or that the EPA is history and global warming is unstoppable, or that the Suoreme Court is now a conservative bastion for the next fifty years, what do you all expect me to do? Roll over and die? The people have spoken, and that’s it, we’re all done now? > > That’s why I posted what I did in Elections: because I wanted to get a real sense of what I’m facing here. Because in the end, I’m hoping that very few people have given up. The Democrats will likely win in a huge landslide in 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242/34 "2016-11-10T22:01:22Z")
Leaper, I hope you’re doing better today. I am. Do what I did and get off the internet for a day. I got myself involved in offline things (not involving political discussions) and it helped quite a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242/35 "2016-11-10T23:57:31Z")
Honestly, it’s the reactions of others that was bugging me. But as you said, people in general are calming down, which definitely helps. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242/36 "2016-11-11T00:35:18Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The Democrats will likely win in a huge landslide in 2020. Never underestimate the Democrats ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242/37 "2016-11-11T00:41:05Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > Never underestimate the Democrats ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. As they just reminded us. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242/38 "2016-11-11T00:45:16Z")
So what you’re saying is, we should panic and despair. And you came into this thread to say it. This is irony, right? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242/39 "2016-11-11T01:52:18Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I just wanted to parse this, to make sure I’ve got it. 2 steps forward, one step back. The net gain is one step forward. Is that the idea? Basically. And repeat for the next 50 years like the last 50 and we may be someplace fairly nice. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2016, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242/40 "2016-11-11T02:58:14Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > I think in four years you’ll see a lot of buyer’s remorse. I don’t think so. These aren’t buyers; they’re borrowers who will take your car, drive it into the ditch, then blame you because the airbag spilled their beer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-fellow-liberals-should-i-just-give-up-now/771242.md?page=3)