# FINE. I won't stuff my turkey this year. Sooo ... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 15, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741 "2010-11-15T14:47:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741/21 "2010-11-15T20:02:31Z")
Even without health concerns, there’s not nearly enough room in the cavity of the turkey to fit enough stuffing in there. Everyone gets slow-cooker made stuffing, which comes out moist and with a crunchier top. Win-win, and I don’t have to screw around with stuffing a turkey that’s getting flipped over partway through roasting. Oh, and the answer to the OP’s question is chopped sage, thyme, and shallots; mix this with butter and also rub it under the skin of the bird. And no basting. ---
**Author:** ![freckafree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freckafree/32/3050_2.png) [@freckafree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freckafree)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741/22 "2010-11-15T20:16:37Z")
And, honestly, if you use a stuffing recipe that doesn’t call for eggs or sausage, is there really all that much to worry about as far as internal temp goes? It’s bread, vegetables, and seasonings. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741/23 "2010-11-15T20:21:16Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > This is a new one for me. What’s wrong with stuffing the cavity of the bird? How the heck else are you going to infuse the wonderful flavor of roast turkey into your stuffing? Stuffing is the best way to go on that, but I add extra by: a) Sauteing the giblets in the butter that’s going to eventually become the stuffing, and b) Simmering the neck in water for a good hour our two and using that liquid to moisten the stuffing. Even then, making the stuffing outside of the bird doesn’t let the herbs infuse themselves into the bread. I’m liking the broiler idea. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741/24 "2010-11-15T20:30:19Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Oh, and the answer to the OP’s question is chopped sage, thyme, and shallots; mix this with butter and also rub it under the skin of the bird. And no basting. I’ve done that, though mostly with chicken. Steve Raichlen has a great garlic Herb butter [recipe](http://www.primalgrill.org/season2/recipes/213_recipes.html). Basting is just skin treatment anyhow. It doesn’t do jack to moisten the meat. I usually indirectly grill my turkey on a large charcoal Weber. Indirect grilling magic assures the white meat will not be dry. No basting, no turning. The lid just stays on until it’s done. Though depending on the size, I may have to add white hot coals to the grill 1/2 or 3/4 of the way through. That’s what the charcoal chimney is for. Wrapping up pre-soaked wood chips in foil pouches and adding those to the coals is a great shortcut to that wonderful smoked turkey flavor too. I consistently achieve a great smoke ring with this method. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741/25 "2010-11-15T20:37:28Z")
> [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](#): > > Just use already-cooked stuffing ingredients, [like these](http://www.whitecastle.com/company/news/view/11-white-castle-shows-how-to-stuff-it). That doesn’t help the undercooking problem, because uncooked turkey juices will flow into the stuffing. Which is the point of making stuffing rather than dressing, but those juices need to be cooked. ---
**Author:** ![howye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741/26 "2010-11-15T20:39:42Z")
> [@freckafree](#): > > And, honestly, if you use a stuffing recipe that doesn’t call for eggs or sausage, is there really all that much to worry about as far as internal temp goes? It’s bread, vegetables, and seasonings. Its not what is in the stuffing that is the issue, its the cavity and its associated liquids. As others have pointed out, the stuffing absorbs the juices of the turkey but that combination may not hit a high enough temperature to kill all of the wee beasties that modern farming has given us. If you want stuffing pulled from a turkey butt - prewarm it as per Alton Brown, and then stuff. Or make dressing on the side, and stuff your turkey with aromatics. Amazing what some apples, onions, celery, carrots, and cinnamon sticks will do. This is probably a low risk situation for most people, but those with health issues might not want to take their chances. I am dressing fan, cause that is what mom made. But knock yourself out, I don’t cook pork as much as the feds tell me to, we all gotta take chances. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741/27 "2010-11-15T21:24:29Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Yeah - put the stuffing in the bird and give all the whiny do-gooders _the_ bird. Now there’s an idea I can get behind! 😃 I spent years trying to reproduce the heavenly stuffing I experienced as a child before finally facing the sad fact that I was chasing a dream; my tastes have changed and even if I could jump back in time and taste the original again, it would likely taste awfully plain to me. I’ve been experimenting for the last few years with various recipes I’ve found and happily settled on one made with a combination of bread cubes and crumbs mixed with buttermilk cornbread cubes, thrown together with chopped shallots, celery, fresh sage, white wine, and a lavish amount of butter. I’ve been tweaking my Thanksgiving offerings since I started hosting it years ago, but I’ve always done the classic turkey-with-stuffing (and extra packed in foil and put in the oven after the bird comes out). I’m intrigued about trying something different that may add even more flavor to the turkey. Plus, it should cook a bit faster without stuffing, right? I’ll admit that part of what pushed me to make a change is that every year, when I scoop out the rest of the stuffing from deep within, it’s pinkish with the turkey juices and I’ve had my doubts about how wise I was to eat it. I’m thinking I’ll soak the stuffing (well, I guess I have to call it dressing now) with about a cup of the gravy I’ve already prepared so that it stays moist and has good turkey flavor. Loving the thought of the aromatics in the turkey, lending moisture and flavoring from within! Many thanks for all the tips! ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741/28 "2010-11-15T21:39:35Z")
For those looking for yummy compromise dressing: Halfway through cooking the turkey pull some drippings out of the pan (I use my baster for this, as it no longer has any other purpose.) Put them in a pan to boil and reduce until brown. Add the water needed for the dressing and use the combo to make the dressing. Voila! It’s yummy, crisp and properly turkified. And the turkey cooks faster. Win win. Also, I lightly fill the cavity with sliced onion, carrots, potato, and peeled celery. Then when I make the gravy I puree these veggies and use them to thicken the gravy. It’s seriously yummy. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741/29 "2010-11-15T22:27:07Z")
If the turkey juices inside the bird don’t get cooked enough when they’re soaked into stuffing, why would they get cooked enough when they’re just pooling in an empty cavity? ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741/30 "2010-11-15T22:39:38Z")
But you wouldn’t eat the empty cavity (or at least I don’t see how you even could, not that I’m trying to tell you how to live your life). And if the meat closer in on the turkey were undercooked, that would be pretty obvious and you could leave it for the soup, where it could be cooked through. The stuffing, however, might look normal and yet have bacteria-rich uncooked poultry juice soaked through it. At least, that’s how it’s been presented to me. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741/31 "2010-11-15T22:42:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If the turkey juices inside the bird don’t get cooked enough when they’re soaked into stuffing, why would they get cooked enough when they’re just pooling in an empty cavity? There’s less to heat. The stuffing heats a lot more slowly than the air in a cavity. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741/32 "2010-11-15T22:53:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If the turkey juices inside the bird don’t get cooked enough when they’re soaked into stuffing, why would they get cooked enough when they’re just pooling in an empty cavity? Because the empty cavity will transfer more heat than a cavity filled with 8 lbs of cold stuffing. Plus the hollow cavity allows air circulation. It’s quicker to heat a hollow sphere with a hole in it (let’s think of the turkey as a sphere) than a solid sphere right\*? Because the heat will heat the turkey inside and out. If you fill the turkey with room-temp stuffing (as was normally done), you have to heat the stuffing AND the turkey which takes longer–during which time your breast meat becomes turkey-jerky. What most people do/did therefore, was cook the turkey until the turkey is/was done and then say “Meh–close enough” to the stuffing even though the stuffing’s center isn’t nearly hot enough to kill the evil salmonella germs. One suggestion is to heat the stuffing in advance–not only will that transfer heat to the turkey cooking it faster, but it’ll take much less time to get the stuffing to the magic 165 degree temp. \*You’re like…_literally_ a rocket-scientist or something, right? I mean, you’re a high-level science guy–I suspect I’m embarrassing myself here. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741/33 "2010-11-15T22:55:48Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > This is a new one for me. What’s wrong with stuffing the cavity of the bird? How the heck else are you going to infuse the wonderful flavor of roast turkey into your stuffing? To sum up what Alton thinks (and what others in this thread touched on a little obliquely), it’s a matter of cooking temperature/time. The stuffing’s not going to be done at the same time as the bird, and said stuffing is getting infused with turkey juice that needs to be cooked at a certain temperature for a certain time, factors that almost assuredly are NOT going to match what the turkey needs. So, as he sees it, your choices are either: a) A dried out turkey b) Stuffing teeming with salmonella; or c) Stuffing that’s too dry, mealy, and/or gooey to actually make a worthwhile accompaniment to the turkey. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741/34 "2010-11-15T23:09:16Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > For those looking for yummy compromise dressing: Halfway through cooking the turkey pull some drippings out of the pan (I use my baster for this, as it no longer has any other purpose.) Put them in a pan to boil and reduce until brown. Add the water needed for the dressing and use the combo to make the dressing. I haven’t read the whole article yet, but the latest Cook’s Illustrated magazine has a similar idea with another “turkey-infused” stuffing recipe that’s apparently yummy without actually being stuffed. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741/35 "2010-11-16T00:45:35Z")
> [@](#): > > There’s less to heat. The stuffing heats a lot more slowly than the air in a cavity. Well, yes, but the specific heat of water is very high. Most of the energy that goes into heating up the stuffing is going to be going into heating the liquid in the stuffing, not the bread, and that liquid is going to be there and going to need heating up whether the bread is present or not. > [@](#): > > Plus the hollow cavity allows air circulation. Convective heat transfer is close to negligible in a conventional oven. Conductive transfer from the turkey to whatever’s inside it is going to be much more effective, and that will work at least as well with bread in there as without bread in there. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741/36 "2010-11-16T01:22:48Z")
You need two more birds. Stuff a chicken with a duck, then stuff the turkey with the chicken stuffed with duck. Turducken! Very tasty. ---
**Author:** ![that\_darn\_cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/59ef9b/32.png) [@that\_darn\_cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/that_darn_cat)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741/37 "2010-11-16T01:55:24Z")
Or, you could do what do: Bone the breast and make a roulade: rolling the intact breasts and skin around a light sage and onion and breadcrumb stuffing. The breastmeat gets done perfectly and the stuffing is cooked properly. Each slice has a bit of tasty stuffing with it. Then I make a sage and onion bread pudding which kicks the ass off normal stuffing. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741/38 "2010-11-16T12:16:58Z")
I almost never cook a whole turkey, as even a small bird is too much for two or three people (and assorted cats). I do occasionally roast a whole chicken, and I stuff the neck and vent cavities with peeled and cut up onions, celery, and carrots. I also peel and slice a few potatoes, and line the bottom of the roasting pan with a layer or two, and put the bird on top of them. People FIGHT over the potatoes, and willingly eat the aromatics. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741/39 "2010-11-16T13:29:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well, yes, but the specific heat of water is very high. Most of the energy that goes into heating up the stuffing is going to be going into heating the liquid in the stuffing, not the bread, and that liquid is going to be there and going to need heating up whether the bread is present or not. Sure, but unstuffed, 90% of that liquid is going to drain out of the cavity and into the metal pan, not be absorbed into a spongy stuffing. You may use the same amount of energy, but that doesn’t mean you use the same amount of time at the same oven temperature to get it cooked through. Water spread out in a metal pan heats up faster than water absorbed in a ball of bread stuffed into a bird, which heats up faster than water in a Thermos. That’s part of the skill of cooking, making sure you get the center cooked through when the outside is still good to eat. A stuffed bird takes longer to cook than an empty bird, so there’s more risk that the white meat will be overcooked by the time the stuffing is ready. While I’m sure it’s possible to do safely and tastily, many Thanksgiving cooks are too overworked, too stressed and too unskilled to do it. There are a dozen dishes to get together, family running around, and it’s something you only do once a year, so it’s not exactly a well honed skill. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741/40 "2010-11-16T13:38:14Z")
I roast a whole turkey even if I’m all by myself. No turkey = no soup. No soup is a bad thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fine-i-wont-stuff-my-turkey-this-year-sooo/560741.md?page=3)