# Fingerprinting aliens entering the U.S. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2002, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-aliens-entering-the-u-s/123682 "2002-08-13T13:42:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-aliens-entering-the-u-s/123682/41 "2002-08-16T15:42:36Z")
I’ve visited Brazil twice. I’ve visited Canada countless times. I will be visiting Venezuela next month. In **NONE** of those countries can I simply enter without proving my identity and nationality. In **NONE** of those countries can I stay as long as I want. In **NONE** of those countries can I state a purpose for coming, and then do something else. (Well, you can, but you’re not supposed to.) In **NONE** of those countries can I work, without the government’s permission. In **NONE** of those countries can I vote. In other words, as a non-citizen, I don’t have these and countless other rights that a citizen of those countries has. Do you understand now? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-aliens-entering-the-u-s/123682/42 "2002-08-16T16:13:43Z")
Yes, I understand you are being disingenous because I clearly explained what type of rights I was talking about and yet you insist in listing the ones I had already mentioned myself. My point stands, you have not shown any country where your rights to due process as an alien are any less than those of the local nationals. AFAIK, if you are accused of a crime in Canada, or Brazil, your rights to legal process are the same as for local nationals. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-aliens-entering-the-u-s/123682/43 "2002-08-16T16:52:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Hear, hear. But I don’t see what INS is planning to implement this Sept. 11 as inconsistent with that. I see it as a step in that direction. And I wholly support changes in the bureaucracy to fix the kinds of problems you described. Also agreed. My point is that rather than reactively implementing policies and procedures, not to mention huge, expensive nationwide computer systems, which are likely to accomplish nothing beyond creating additional chaos at border checkpoints, INS and Congress for once should think and analyze cohesively before they act. They both have a long history of reactively putting Band-Aids on pieces of the puzzle rather than looking at immigration, both illegal and legal, as a systemic issue. I understand that we need to something major, and quickly, but I fear that piecemeal implementation of systems which don’t funciton properly will just make matters worse, while hurting innocent people and costing a lot of money. Later, I’ll take a poke around for a GAO report on the issue which I remember dimly… ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-aliens-entering-the-u-s/123682/44 "2002-08-16T17:04:05Z")
Found it. It’s a .pdf file; you can find it at [www.gao.gov](http://www.gao.gov) if the links here don’t end up working. Information Management: Immigration and Naturalization Service Lacks Ready Access to Essential Data. IMTEC-90-75 September 27, 1990 Abstract Twelve years later, all the problems mentioned are still pretty much there. ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-aliens-entering-the-u-s/123682/45 "2002-08-16T19:35:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*Yes, I understand you are being disingenous because I clearly explained what type of rights I was talking about and yet you insist in listing the ones I had already mentioned myself. \*\* OK, so we’re back to that. So again I’ll say, you keep trying to change the debate here. And I’m not sure why. ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-aliens-entering-the-u-s/123682/46 "2002-08-16T19:44:53Z")
Or, put another way, what does that point have to do with the issue at hand? The U.S. does not require information from its visitors that other nations don’t also require. Agree? Disagree? What’s being proposed is a way to better ensure the accuracy of information that every country requires from visitors. The U.S. has a particular need to ensure this accuracy as best it can. Agree? Disagree? Some of you are saying any benefit will be outweighed by costs, directly financial and otherwise. That may very well be. That’s a legitimate point. I guess I am adopting a more wait-and-see approach, to how the trials go. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-aliens-entering-the-u-s/123682/47 "2002-08-16T19:49:55Z")
the bank analogy doesn’t work for me : yes, we lock the doors on the bank **and** we make the safes really secure. What we **don’t do** is put a lock on the safe, but leave the doors open, which is the (IMHO) proper analogy to making the official ports of entry a pain in the ass to go through while having thousands of miles of open borders. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-aliens-entering-the-u-s/123682/48 "2002-08-16T19:53:39Z")
You repeat the question and I could repeat the answer I gave you. You, OTOH have _not_ answered my question which implies you do not have a good answer. Since this is not the central point of the thread and since it is a waste of time, I will just drop it. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-aliens-entering-the-u-s/123682/49 "2002-08-16T19:58:47Z")
My above post was directed at Milossarian’s post two up. While I was trying to submit his second post and wring’s came in. This is just too frustrating. I will now pass my time torturing hamsters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-aliens-entering-the-u-s/123682.md?page=2)