# Fingerprinting at the orthodontist - WTF??? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 2, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512 "2009-06-02T22:07:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512/1 "2009-06-02T22:07:03Z")
At the Zappakids’ orthodontist, when you walk in, there’s a keyboard and monitor in which the child (or parent) types his/her name in to check in when you walk in. This is great. It lets the staff know, and the kids enjoy it. Or rather, there _was_. Today, we were greeted with a sign saying to sign in, touch the glowing red thingy or type your name. Only of course the monitor / keyboard were not reachable by the kids, and the glowing red thingy is a fingerprint reader. I know I’m being paranoid, but I really, really REALLY don’t see any good reason for them to go to a fingerprint-based login. I know the potential for abuse is pretty much zero, but why on EARTH do they want to switch to such a method? Moon Unit was annoyed with me when I wouldn’t let them set her up with that. I made them sign her in the old-fashioned way. What’s next? mug shots (oh wait, they took those already). ---
**Author:** ![Dusty\_Rose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ba8739/32.png) [@Dusty\_Rose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dusty_Rose)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512/2 "2009-06-02T22:19:22Z")
I would have done the same thing, **Mama Zapa**. Giving my (or letting my child give) fingerprints at the dentist?? No way. That just feels wrong. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512/3 "2009-06-02T22:42:49Z")
I can offer one positive reason - kids’ dental records are being linked positively to fingerprints. Might be useful information in case of an accident or abduction. I don’t usually think of such things, but over the weekend, I was at a friend’s home, and they have their kids’ fingerprint cards on the fridge. ---
**Author:** ![Claire\_Beauchamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ec9cab/32.png) [@Claire\_Beauchamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claire_Beauchamp)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512/4 "2009-06-02T23:27:17Z")
It may also have to do with preventing mix-ups. Biometric sign-ins are one way to make sure you are who you say you are, and that there’s not some clerical error in pulling up the correct record. Instead of ranting on an anonymous BBS, why not call the ortho’s office and ASK? ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512/5 "2009-06-02T23:56:34Z")
I am 52 years old and have never had my fingerprints taken. I am applyling for a job that may require that they be taken, and that is fine. Because it involves a level of security. But I’m not giving in to having them used at the dentist!! That is just over board. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512/6 "2009-06-03T00:25:55Z")
It would do you people well to understand how the technology actually works instead of worry about some imaginary Big Brother conspiracy. Fingerprint authentication systems like this DO NOT store your fingerprints. NO ONE can steal the data and get hold of your fingerprints because they do not exist in the system. What is stored is a digital hash representing them. When you place your finger on the reader, a new hash is created and sent to the server which compares the new hash with the old hash. The system knows it’s you if they match. That’s it. ---
**Author:** ![dgrdfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@dgrdfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dgrdfd)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512/7 "2009-06-03T01:17:34Z")
What do you suspect they are going to do or can do with your fingerprint? Unless there’s something I don’t know that can be done with a fingerprint, I think you people are overreacting. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512/8 "2009-06-03T01:51:35Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > It would do you people well to understand how the technology actually works instead of worry about some imaginary Big Brother conspiracy. Fingerprint authentication systems like this DO NOT store your fingerprints. NO ONE can steal the data and get hold of your fingerprints because they do not exist in the system. What is stored is a digital hash representing them. When you place your finger on the reader, a new hash is created and sent to the server which compares the new hash with the old hash. The system knows it’s you if they match. That’s it. Jeez, what’s the fun in that? It’s like talking about using public key encryption for electronic voting authentication. People get worried that with secure electronic voting someone will be able to duplicate passkeys, no paper records, blah blah blah. Only the fraud history on paper ballot voting is abominable, while a purely electronic system using a trapdoor function with suitably large pseudoprime factors would be for all practical purposes unbreakable from the voter to the collection point and could have any desired degree of traceability and anonymity. But mention this to your date and next thing you know she’s falling asleep into her beer. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![hroark2112](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6a8cbe/32.png) [@hroark2112](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hroark2112)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512/9 "2009-06-03T02:09:44Z")
If you wear your tin foil hat while you’re scanning your fingerprints, it will make the system delete your records and keep you safe when they put you up against the wall. ---
**Author:** ![Zany\_Zeolite\_Zipper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zany\_Zeolite\_Zipper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zany_Zeolite_Zipper)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512/10 "2009-06-03T02:26:18Z")
You know, this is all a plot by THE MAN. First he gets you used to giving your fingerprints where it doesn’t matter. What give fingerprints, get a free frozen yoghurt from Moobies? Why not. Then, boom, GPS transponder drilled into your forehead, and Prozacs in the water!!! ::Theromin music:: ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512/11 "2009-06-03T02:50:15Z")
There is a growing problem known as [medical identity theft](http://www.worldprivacyforum.org/medicalidentitytheft.html) and I expect this might be part of the fight against it. I need a couple of crowns and have no insurance and no way to pay for it myself. I can afford a coupla hundred for the info to present myself as **Stranger On A Train** and get the work done. Having the fingerprint in the system can allow it to either know immediately that I’m not **SoaT** , have one more piece of data to find me when the fraud is discovered, and gives **SoaT** a big piece of proof that he’s not the one who authorized the procedure. ---
**Author:** ![kittenblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@kittenblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenblue)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512/12 "2009-06-03T02:51:11Z")
My concern is more along the lines of, why does a mere local orthodontist feel the need for this level and expense of technology? You can comply with HIPPA regulations with much less fanfare and angst, and it would seem that the keyboard thing was a good method for that. So why do something that seems a bit more expensive? Braces cost enough as it is…I wouldn’t want my money spent on frills like that. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512/13 "2009-06-03T02:55:36Z")
[It isn’t that expensive at all](http://www.colamco.com/store/product/detail.aspx?product=580809). ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512/14 "2009-06-03T03:11:42Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > It would do you people well to understand how the technology actually works instead of worry about some imaginary Big Brother conspiracy. Fingerprint authentication systems like this DO NOT store your fingerprints. NO ONE can steal the data and get hold of your fingerprints because they do not exist in the system. What is stored is a digital hash representing them. When you place your finger on the reader, a new hash is created and sent to the server which compares the new hash with the old hash. The system knows it’s you if they match. That’s it. Great, then I’ll just place my car keys on the pad and they can read that, cause they will always be the same each time I visit the office. Why not just place my insurance card on the reader and gather that info? Because biometric readers identify only YOU, and are an intrusive, passive search of your person. And a violation of personal rights, what little there are left. It is false to say that the information is not stored. If it can be used to identify you as an individual it must be stored in a form that is unique to you. We get this same crap from the Census Bureau. All information given is striped of identity. Unless you wait 72 years and then it’s all there. Or if an emergency happens and we want to know where all the Jews, or Muslims are. “It would do you people well to understand” that I am not going for it. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512/15 "2009-06-03T03:15:04Z")
:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512/16 "2009-06-03T03:26:22Z")
> [@kittenblue](#): > > My concern is more along the lines of, why does a mere local orthodontist feel the need for this level and expense of technology? You can comply with HIPPA regulations with much less fanfare and angst, and it would seem that the keyboard thing was a good method for that. So why do something that seems a bit more expensive? Braces cost enough as it is…I wouldn’t want my money spent on frills like that. Also it can eliminate a not insignificant number of the “which of the 17 michelle joneses is this” type problems. Just like many banks have you swipe your ATM card at the counter to save some keystrokes and log you in with your pin code. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512/17 "2009-06-03T03:31:42Z")
I refuse to allow my voice to be recorded during telephone conversations; I sure as hell would object to giving my fingerprints before having my teeth worked on. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512/18 "2009-06-03T03:32:07Z")
> [@ghardester](#): > > Great, then I’ll just place my car keys on the pad and they can read that, cause they will always be the same each time I visit the office. Why not just place my insurance card on the reader and gather that info? Because biometric readers identify only YOU, and are an intrusive, passive search of your person. And a violation of personal rights, what little there are left. > > It is false to say that the information is not stored. If it can be used to identify you as an individual it must be stored in a form that is unique to you. We get this same crap from the Census Bureau. All information given is striped of identity. Unless you wait 72 years and then it’s all there. Or if an emergency happens and we want to know where all the Jews, or Muslims are. > > “It would do you people well to understand” that I am not going for it. Dude, biometrics like this are little different from fancy barcode readers, its a few points of reference linked to your account number in the database. They are worthless for identifying you as a criminal, they can’t print out a copy of your fingerprint. They dont store your whole fingerprint or anything resembling a fingerprint as you are concerned with. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512/19 "2009-06-03T03:34:21Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I refuse to allow my voice to be recorded during telephone conversations; I sure as hell would object to giving my fingerprints before having my teeth worked on. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512/20 "2009-06-03T03:46:08Z")
I’m a bit old-fashioned myself and prefer the old ways, like Xeroxing your butt. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fingerprinting-at-the-orthodontist-wtf/498512.md?page=2)