# Finished "The Sopranos" my thoughts? (spoilers within) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 24, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592 "2011-04-24T22:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592/21 "2011-04-26T10:01:52Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > When I first saw it, I thought there might be some ambiguity about the scene. But after reading various analyses, and especially Chase’s own comment that “It’s all there,” and Bobby’s “You never hear it when it happens,” I don’t think there’s any other interpretation possible but that Tony gets popped by the guy in the Members Only jacket. I didn’t know anything about Chase’s comments and it seems as if there is a “right” interpretation. That being the case, I’m comfortable with that and also with the fact that we don’t see it. My own personal preference is that it could be slightly more open to interpretation but hey, I’m quibbling. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592/22 "2011-04-26T15:43:34Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I didn’t know anything about Chase’s comments and it seems as if there is a “right” interpretation. That being the case, I’m comfortable with that and also with the fact that we don’t see it. My own personal preference is that it could be slightly more open to interpretation but hey, I’m quibbling. [Here’s some more comments by Chase](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_America_(The_Sopranos)#Comments_from_David_Chase) that support the view that Tony ends up dead (although he leaves the door open very slightly that it may happen after that particular scene): > [@](#): > > On the fans of the show and the demand for an unambiguous and definitive ending, Chase remarked “There was so much more to say than could have been conveyed by an image of Tony facedown in a bowl of onion rings with a bullet in his head. Or, on the other side, taking over the New York mob. The way I see it is that Tony Soprano had been people’s alter ego. They had gleefully watched him rob, kill, pillage, lie and cheat. They had cheered him on. And then, all of a sudden, they wanted to see him punished for all that. They wanted ‘justice.’ They wanted to see his brains splattered on the wall. I thought that was disgusting, frankly. […] The pathetic thing—to me—was how much they wanted his blood, after cheering him on for eight years.” Chase also made comments about the purported lack of finality in the final episode: “This wasn’t really about ‘leaving the door open.’ There was nothing definite about what happened, but there was a clean trend on view—a definite sense of what Tony and Carmela’s future looks like. Whether it happened that night or some other night doesn’t matter.” > [@](#): > > There had been indications of what the end is like. Remember when Gerry Torciano was killed? Silvio was not aware that the gun had been fired until after Gerry was on his way down to the floor. That’s the way things happen: It’s already going on by the time you even notice it. […] I’m not saying anything. And I’m not trying to be coy. It’s just that I think that to explain it would diminish it." Also: > [@](#): > > Belzer, Richard (2008-12-12). “Belzer and David Chase interview”. Premium Air America.: > > R.Belzer: I was working with Steve Schirripa recently, we were judging Last Coming Standing for NBC and we were talking about a lot of things and he was saying he heard all of these theories for the show that had nothing to do with your intention and wasn’t anything the actors thought, like little hints along the way, like a word, like when Tony and Steve are on the boat at the lake and they say “you never know it’s gonna happen” or “you never know it’s gonna hit you.” > D.Chase: That was part of the ending. > R.Belzer: Oh, it was? See, what do I know? Were there other things in previous episodes that were hints towards it? > D.Chase: There was that and there was a shooting which Silvio was a witness, well he wasn’t a witness, he was eating dinner with a couple of hookers and with some other guy and there was some visual stuff that went on there which sort of amplified Tony’s remarks to Bacala about you know “you don’t know it’s happened” or “you won’t know it happened when it hits you”. That’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592/23 "2011-04-26T15:59:05Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > [Here’s some more comments by Chase](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_America_(The_Sopranos)#Comments_from_David_Chase) that support the view that Tony ends up dead (although he leaves the door open very slightly that it may happen after that particular scene): He said, “There was nothing definite about what happened, but there was a clean trend on view—a definite sense of what Tony and Carmela’s future looks like. Whether it happened that night or some other night doesn’t matter.” That’s the uncertainty that I mentioned; that Tony would never know when a hit would come. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592/24 "2011-04-26T16:05:36Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > He said, “There was nothing definite about what happened, but there was a clean trend on view—a definite sense of what Tony and Carmela’s future looks like. Whether it happened that night or some other night doesn’t matter.” That’s the uncertainty that I mentioned; that Tony would never know when a hit would come. True, and I think that there’s a bit of artistry there on Chase’s part to leave that small amount of ambiguity by not showing the outcome explicitly. However, the whole setup with the Members Only Guy plus the screen going to black pretty strongly indicates that Tony does in fact end up face down in the onion rings. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592/25 "2011-04-26T16:14:07Z")
When that episode aired, I remember a lot of people hated the ending because of the ambiguity. But I appreciated it specifically for that. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592/26 "2011-04-26T16:34:51Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > What I often found a bit annoying about the Sopranos is that every season introduced a ton of new characters without it being perfectly clear where they came from, who they were, etc., which often had me guessing about what exactly was going on. I think that was one of the most well done parts of the show actually. These people (the main characters) did not exist in a bubble; there was an entire world and history around them, and various characters came and went from their lives often without explanation, as frequently occurs in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592/27 "2011-04-26T17:09:19Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They pretty much did that with all of Tony’s crew. You’d forget what kind of people they were, then bam. One moment that stands out for me was when Sylvio killed Adrianna. He was this sort of low key, almost comic figure. A loyal bulldog, seemingly non-threatening and avuncular. Then we see him dragging Adrianna (a character who basically _was_ sympathetic) out of the truck, calling her a “fucking cunt,” and ruthlessly killing her with no remorse or feeling. We see what he really is in that moment - a psychopathic thug. I think a lot of the show was about how easy it could be to forget that about these kinds of people on a daily basis. The incident like this I remember in particular was when Paulie Walnuts, who frequently just served as comic relief, brutally murdered one of his mother’s acquantances during a botched burglary - which was a pretty cheap crime for a capo to be engaged in in the first pleace. Another case is when Chistopher shoots his scriptwriter friend out of pure sociopathy. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592/28 "2011-04-26T18:12:33Z")
I’m pretty sure we have not seen the last of the Sopranos. Just like aging rockers that have retired multiple times and television shows that were long ago cancelled seem to find one more reunion tour or that 60’s/70’s sitcom is now a new 3D blockbuster, a few decades from now, some Hollywood producer will buy up the rights to the Sopranos and a movie will be made. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592/29 "2011-04-26T21:50:00Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The incident like this I remember in particular was when Paulie Walnuts, who frequently just served as comic relief, brutally murdered one of his mother’s acquantances during a botched burglary - which was a pretty cheap crime for a capo to be engaged in in the first pleace. > > Another case is when Chistopher shoots his scriptwriter friend out of pure sociopathy. I was kind of feeling bad about Big Pussy’s inevitable whacking until he went to that guy’s house and killed him with a hammer because the guy had seen Pussy with an FBI agent even though the guy he killed couldn’t have known who the agent was. Rather than take a one in a million chance…hammer time. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592/30 "2011-04-27T08:50:41Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The incident like this I remember in particular was when Paulie Walnuts, who frequently just served as comic relief, brutally murdered one of his mother’s acquantances during a botched burglary - which was a pretty cheap crime for a capo to be engaged in in the first pleace. > > Another case is when Chistopher shoots his scriptwriter friend out of pure sociopathy. And when Tony kills Christopher it is done with barely a blink. Pure opportunism. Here was a chance to do away with a problem without a chance of repercussions and Tony didn’t hesitate for a second. Job done. A sociopath through and through and yet we are on his side, even though we don’t like him. It does take quality writing to do that. I’m reminded of the William Munny character in “Unforgiven” He only seems likeable given the context of more unlikeable characters around him. AND YET WE STILL ROOT FOR HIM!! ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592/31 "2011-04-27T11:23:04Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Instead of thinking of the characters as bad guys, think of Tony and his crew as the good bad guys and the other families the bad bad guys. You have to think of the Soprano crew as the protagonists otherwise you’re going to hate the show. Well, structurally they _were_ protagonists, just really unlikeable bad-guy protagonists. “Protagonist” does not mean “good guy.” But indeed, I did give up on the show long before the end. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592/32 "2011-04-27T12:03:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > My only regret was never finding out what happened to the Russian. Snap! I held my breath for a long time expecting Paulie to meet him again. Paulie: “You’re not gonna believe this. He killed 16 Czechoslovakians. The guy was an interior decorator!” Chris : “Really? His house looked like s\*\*\*” ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592/33 "2011-04-27T12:11:48Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > What I often found a bit annoying about the Sopranos is that every season introduced a ton of new characters without it being perfectly clear where they came from, who they were, etc., which often had me guessing about what exactly was going on. You are right and yet those puzzles gave enormous depth to this drama series. A casual comment, a seemingly innocuous meeting, would play out many episodes later with the effect for the viewer of mysteries uncovered, doors opening. I think this was an very effective dramatic device albeit risky because David Chase had to hope people would keep involved in watching. I freely confess that I had to resort to the internet numerous times to catch mumbled dialogue and characters names. For me it was worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592/34 "2011-04-27T12:24:38Z")
A fair amount of this discussion focuses on the last few seconds of the final episode which surprises me. 80 hours of rich riveting television with fine acting built to that point. I don’t care about the hang-fire end although the 40 seconds of black screen was inspired. For me The Sopranos was a wonderful series which I’ve rewatched on DVD. The only competing series is The Wire which is slower but equally complex. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592/35 "2011-04-27T18:06:11Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > For me The Sopranos was a wonderful series which I’ve rewatched on DVD. I’m re-watching it now, and am almost at the end of the second season. The first time through, I didn’t watch any of the commentary, because I was always too interested in seeing what came next. Now I’m rectifying that. The series becomes even more interesting when you catch the initial hints of how certain things will play out in the future. Like others, my main disappointment was not ever finding out what happened to the Russian. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592/36 "2011-04-27T19:32:11Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > …Like others, my main disappointment was not ever finding out what happened to the Russian. Don’t look. He’s right behind you. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592/37 "2011-04-27T19:48:25Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Don’t look. He’s right behind you. I like to think he ended up with Irina, and they were the ones who hired the Members Only guy.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Frazzled](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frazzled/32/3368_2.png) [@Frazzled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frazzled)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592/38 "2011-04-27T20:47:07Z")
Through the course of the show we get to see these guys kill through their own eyes, through the eyes of uninvolved bystanders, and finally at the end through the (dead) eyes of the victim himself. Just as Chase said - everything we need to know about what happened has already been shown to us in previous episodes. From Tony’s point of view (and the audience) - everything just went black. Based on his conversation with Bobby we know this is what happens when they die. From an outsiders point of view his death would mirror Phil Leotardo’s death from the previous episode. We already saw exactly what a quick headshot looks like from an outsiders perspective, so there was no sense in showing it that way again. The patrons in the restaurant would have been frozen in terror just as the witnesses at the gas station did allowing the hitman to escape. From his families point of view - they would have seen the murder happen in slow motion, just as Silvio saw it happen. They wouldn’t have known what happened until well after it was over at which point Carmella would break the silence with a very loud scream. The Members Only man coming from the bathroom is just one final homage to the Godfather (which was frequently referenced throughout the series). The fact that the family received a call earlier in the episode telling everybody where to meet also mirrors the Godfather. While the Corleone family had a plan, they couldn’t implement until an insider called them to tell them the restaurant to hide the gun. In the aftermath - AJ will commit suicide. We already saw him attempt and nearly succeed so we already know how his successful suicide will play out both physically and emotionally. Carmela will become a mob widow just like all of the others we’ve already seen. She’ll end up begging for money and _might_ end up taking a job at some point, but she’ll be a sad and broken woman. My guess is that Carmella will become like Livia (Tony’s Mom). As for Meadow - I have no idea - witnessing her fathers death is a crossroads - will she follow in her mothers footsteps and marry into the mob, or start fresh? The end is brilliant - we know everything we need to know. We have already seen everything we need to see. And yet, without spelling things out, we can still talk about and guess what the final consequences become. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592/39 "2011-04-27T22:08:57Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > And when Tony kills Christopher it is done with barely a blink. > Pure opportunism. Here was a chance to do away with a problem without a chance of repercussions and Tony didn’t hesitate for a second. Job done. No, that really wasn’t the case at all. He tried to get him out of the smashed up car, but couldn’t get the door open, and realized he was in pretty bad shape. He started to call 911 _and then_ he realized that this would be a good time to get rid of a thorn in his side. No one would suspect Tony of killing him after he, and I think he was either drunk or high, rolled his car off the road and down a hill. Tony pinched his nose and forced him to drown in his own blood and all signs would point to the accident as being the cause of death. Yes, it was opportunistic, but it wasn’t impulsive, it wasn’t a snap decision and IIRC offing Chris was something that had been in the back of Tony’s mind for a while at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592/40 "2011-04-27T22:35:41Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > No, that really wasn’t the case at all. He tried to get him out of the smashed up car, but couldn’t get the door open, and realized he was in pretty bad shape. He started to call 911 _and then_ he realized that this would be a good time to get rid of a thorn in his side. No one would suspect Tony of killing him after he, and I think he was either drunk or high, rolled his car off the road and down a hill. Tony pinched his nose and forced him to drown in his own blood and all signs would point to the accident as being the cause of death. Yes, it was opportunistic, but it wasn’t impulsive, it wasn’t a snap decision and IIRC offing Chris was something that had been in the back of Tony’s mind for a while at that point. I don’t see what you are arguing against. **Novelty Bobble** never said Tony acted impulsively - just that he didn’t hesitate once he realized what an opportunity he had. You’re essentially saying the same thing, which makes it weird that you start off saying “that really wasn’t the case at all.” On a related note, I love how memorable the show made something as mundane as closing a cell phone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finished-the-sopranos-my-thoughts-spoilers-within/579592.md?page=3)