# Finn Again's Wake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 18, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923 "2010-03-18T19:10:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/821 "2010-04-14T19:45:01Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > The typical maneuver, exageration of the argument he doesn’t care for and claims of lying. Actually the typical maneuver is yours. I quoted your own words to you, you lie and claim that they’re exaggerated, and then hop up on the cross knowing that I’ll point out you’re lying. Your claim was that “they were expelled (mostly)”. Not only was that untrue, but now you lie and claim that it’s wrong of me to quote your own words. And then you repeat the same claim that you say I was lying about you making. To say nothing of your hypocrisy in accusing me of being autistic in the same breath you whinge about ‘nastiness’. Or to complain about me calling you a liar and being hostile to you when your very first post in thread lied about me and personally insulted me. You’re pure class, yep. Likewise, you’re citing deceptive bullshit (yet again). > [@wmfellows](#): > > refugees were in fact subject to expulsion. Half by their read. That is a lie. Morris actually found that the vast majority fled fighting going on in and around their villages, not that they were expelled. What did Morriss actually find? [Page 591-591](http://books.google.com/books?id=uM_kFX6edX8C&pg=RA3-PA592&lpg=RA3-PA592&dq=in+general,+Haganah+and+IDF+commanders+were+not+forced+to+confront+the+moral+dilemma+posed+by+expulsion%3B+most+Arabs+fled+before+and+during+the+battle,+before+the+Israeli+troops+reached+their+homes+and+before+the+Israeli+commanders+were+forced+to+confront+the+dilema&source=web&ots=6LYl6hVgOs&sig=LxCN52Sy2IaAsvuRv4F0D1CUiCc#v=onepage&q&f=false) > [@](#): > > If Jewish attack directly and indirectly triggered most of the exodus up to June 1948, a small but significant portion was due to direct expulsion orders and to psychological ploys (“whispering propaganda”) designed to intimidate people into flight. Several dozen villages were ordered or ‘advised’ by the Haganah to evacuate during April-June. The expulsions were usually from areas considered strategically vital and in conformity with Plan D, which called for clear main lines of communication and border areas. But, in general, the Haganah and IDF commanders were not forced to confront the moral dilemma posed by expulsion; most Arabs fled before and during battle, before the Israeli troops reached their homes and before the Israeli commanders were forced to confront the dilemma Morriss explicitly differentiates between those who fled battle and those who were expelled. Your lie is that he claimed half were subject to expulsion. Oh, and Pappe? It figures you’d cite him as a source. [ > [@](#): > > There is no historian in the world who is objective. I am not as interested in what happened as in how people see what’s happened. (“An Interview of Ilan Pappé,” Baudouin Loos, Le Soir [Bruxelles],Nov. 29, 1999) > > I admit that my ideology influences my historical writings…(Ibid) > > Indeed the struggle is about ideology, not about facts. Who knows what facts are? We try to convince as many people as we can that our interpretation of the facts is the correct one, and we do it because of ideological reasons, not because we are truthseekers. (Ibid) > > The debate between us is on one level between historians who believe they are purely objective reconstructers of the past, like [Benny] Morris, and those who claim that they are subjective human beings striving to tell their own version of the past, like myself. (“Benny Morris’s Lies About My Book,” Ilan Pappé, Response to Morris’ critique of Pappé’s book, “A History of Palestine” published in the New Republic, March 22, 2004, History News Network, April 5, 2004) > > [Historical] Narratives… when written by historians involved deeply in the subject matter they write about, such as in the case of Israeli historians who write about the Palestine conflict, is motivated also… by a deep involvement and a wish to make a point. This point is called ideology or politics. (Ibid) > > Yes, I use Palestinian sources for the Intifada: they seem to me to be more reliable, I admit. (Ibid) ]([BACKGROUNDER on Professor Ilan Pappé: When Ideology Trumps Scholarship | CAMERA](http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=8&x_nameinnews=122&x_article=994)) Walid Khalidi is someone who called Plan D, a plan for for freeing up a corridor to the Jews of Jerusalem who were being targeted for genocide by the Arab forces, as “The Zionist Master Plan for the Conquest of Palestine”’ Good show wm, pretty much what I expected from you. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/822 "2010-04-14T19:53:01Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > This may have gotten glossed over in all the fury, but does anyone know the answer to this? Right there in the link, first paragraph: > [@](#): > > US President Barack Obama said Tuesday that the US Administration calls upon \*\*all nations \*\*to sign the Non-Proliferation Treaty It isn’t always all about Israel, friend. And when it is, it isn’t always about Israel being held to a different standard. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/823 "2010-04-14T20:01:06Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Right there in the link, first paragraph:It isn’t always all about Israel, friend. And when it is, it isn’t always about Israel being held to a different standard. Oh, I get that, but the way the article is presented with the headline mention of “All Nations…Including Israel” and then later in the article where Obama doesn’t want to “talk about Israel’s nuclear program” just kinda struck me about how nobody really seems to talk about Israel’s nuclear program, ever. Israel hasn’t owned up to having nuclear weapons AFAICT, but everyone just assumes they have them without ever seeming to address the issue. It just strikes me as odd. What political/strategic advantage does Israel gain by not talking about it? The only thing I can think of is that they don’t have nuclear weapons and want their hostile neighbors to just\* think\* they do. And if Israel does have nukes, where did they get them? I recall reading about this some time ago and for some reason I want to say that it is presumed that it wasn’t the US. Why all the secrecy surrounding their program? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/824 "2010-04-14T20:13:36Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > And if Israel does have nukes, where did they get them? France, via the Dimona reactor. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/825 "2010-04-14T20:25:14Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > What political/strategic advantage does Israel gain by not talking about it? If they have them and say so, they just get a lot of shit, and perhaps get “potential adversaries” thinking preemptively (OMG WMD’s!). If they don’t have them and say so, same thing except no more Israel. If they don’t have them and say they don’t, they don’t get feared as much. If they don’t have them and say they do, same as #1. The current approach keeps the useful fear in place without much added risk. > [@](#): > > And if Israel does have nukes, where did they get them? They have physicists and all the non-fissile materials, and can even download plans off the Internet. The 'splodey stuff? Supplies probably haven’t always been as well-protected as we’d prefer to think, and even government-to-government deals can be unannounced. If they wanted it, I don’t doubt they could get it somehow. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/826 "2010-04-14T20:43:02Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Walid Khalidi is someone who called Plan D, a plan for for freeing up a corridor to the Jews of Jerusalem who were being targeted for genocide by the Arab forces, as “The Zionist Master Plan for the Conquest of Palestine”’ > > Good show wm, pretty much what I expected from you. You’re a real piece of work. I note that my only “reference” to Khalidi - who I know nothing about - was from **blockquoting wikipedia** paragraph that cited and focused (as did my comments) on the Israeli historians. Extraordinary. Very typical Frothy type argument. The very picture of honesty. And you complain about it being pointed out you’re a nasty, autistic, lying and/or delusional lunatic. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/827 "2010-04-14T20:53:16Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > I note that my only “reference” to Khalidi - who I know nothing about - was from **blockquoting wikipedia** paragraph that cited and focused (as did my comments) on the Israeli historians. Ahh, I see, you posted something that wasn’t accurate or reliable, distorted what Morris said and relied on cranks to prop up the rest but it’s okay because… well, because you were just quoting it as something accurate and reliable. \*So your ‘defense’ is that you don’t even care to vet the accuracy of your sources, you just present them. And anybody should trust anything you cite ever again… why exactly? \* And all of this was to back up your original lie, that most of the Arabs who fled were expelled. So you just happened to cite a wikipedia article to try to make that point, but it’s not your fault it’s not accurate either. Your new dodge is that when you quote something to try to prove your point, you bear no responsibility for what it says. And you are still deliberately ignoring that the very quote you gave us (that obviously you wanted to use to convince people) lied about what Morriss said and used Pappe as a reliable historian. So I catch you in a lie, you cite an inaccurate wikipedia page to back it up, and then you claim that catching you in your games is “frothing” and catching you lying and debating dishonestly is a black mark against _my_ honesty. This, in a thread that you started by personally attacking me and have now moved on to the savory tactic of alleging that I’m autistic, all while bemoaning a loss of civility. You really are nothing more than an angry-idiot, aintcha? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/828 "2010-04-14T21:03:09Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > and then hop up on the cross Look, he’s having a poke at Jesus now! ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/829 "2010-04-14T21:12:55Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Ahh, I see, you posted something that wasn’t accurate or reliable, distorted what Morris said and relied on cranks to prop up the rest but it’s okay because… You’re really just amazing in the profound cesspool that is your fetid little mind. Get a fucking grip you frothing lunatic, I posted a link to a wiki page illustrating the New Historians. It’s a fucking wiki page, everyone knows it is a quick reference. And you froth on about ‘catching in a lie’ (translated to normal human discourse among non-mentally ill persons, “I disagree with the points made”) You are indeed mentally ill. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/830 "2010-04-14T21:26:24Z")
It’s interesting to watch your dishonesty unfold (your internet psychologist routine is also pretty funny). Your original lie was that most of the Palestinian refugees were expelled. That is not a “difference of opinion”, it is a fiction. You also immediately denied making that claim, lying and saying I’d “exaggerated” your statement… that I’d just quoted verbatim and said exactly what you were denying. Then you went on to repeat the statement you were claiming you weren’t making. A statement that you were evidently unable to support, as you then posted a link to a cite that you suggested supported your position. But that cite was, in turn, based on fictions and used cranks to support its claims. Then, like the angry idiot you are, when caught in your bullshit you began this shameful display, trying to distance yourself from the very thing you used as a cite for your claim. (Again I’d ask why, if you can’t or rather _refuse to_ even verify the accuracy of your own cites, why anybody should trust you in the future about any cite you provide.) And like the angry-idiot that you are, rather than simply retracting your lie, apologizing, or (gasp, shock, horror!) finding out what you’re talking about before you make sweeping claims, you allege that catching you in your games is a clear sign of mental illness. Meanwhile, while you are going bonkers with claims that I’m autistic or insane or frothing…all I’ve done is catch you selling fiction. It’s kinda funny to watch, I point out that you’re bullshitting, you go from zero to angry-idiot in seconds flat. You sure dun blowed up good. I’m not even angry at you. I mean, sure, you’re a liar and you hold forth on matters that you don’t bother to learn anything about before spewing, and you’re a roid-raging angry idiot who thinks he’s a psychologist… but you’re kinda pathetic. Being angry at you feels like kicking a puppy for peeing on the floor. I assume that you’re just too stupid to know any better. I hope you grow up one of these years though, best of luck. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/831 "2010-04-14T21:26:44Z")
BTW, I should not that I see no point playing roll in the mud with the crazy lunatic Frothy about “accuracy” (i.e. adherence to the Frothy Sacred Point of View) relative to the wikipage - people obsessed / interested can get the books out of the library. It is wonderfully illustrative of his bilous autistic obsessiveness though how he grabs on various hooks to give him an excuse to engage in ad hominem attacks. ETA Ooooh, we’re back to accusing everyone in disagreement as being liars, stupid liars, bigots, etc. Please carry on Frothy, your mental illness and inability to interact appropriately with anyone isn’t worshipping your self-perceived brilliance is very entertaining. I am sure further multi-page frothing screeds are upcoming. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/832 "2010-04-14T21:39:33Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > “accuracy” I love watching you go berserk. I pointed out that your original claim is a lie. Then you lie and claim that I’m “exaggerating” what you said, even though I just quoted you verbatim. Then you go on to repeat the same thing you said you hadn’t said. Then you use a wiki page to support it, and it turns out that wiki page is also based on a lie and relies on a fraud like Pappe, so you go ballistic. Then you dishonestly want to claim there’s some debate over the ‘accuracy’ when I already cited and quoted Morriss’ actual research. And you keep on lying and claim that any disagreement is classified as dishonesty by me, when I just pointed out to you that Captain Amazing and I were disagreeing quite civil in the thread that spawned this, get this, _because he’s not dishonest_. Even the calmest and most factually based refutations of your deceptions are met with a storm of anger as you pretend you’re a psychologist and talk about how “frothy” I am. It really is funny. Can you please go berserk again? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/833 "2010-04-14T21:42:19Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > It is wonderfully illustrative of his bilous autistic obsessiveness though how he grabs on various hooks to give him an excuse to engage in ad hominem attacks. Hi, this quote has been selected for inclusion in the Internet Library of Unintended Irony, edition XXXIII. To secure your copy, handsomely bound in common marmoset-skin, with raised lettering to facilitate reading, send $79.95 (or for the British edition, 103.70 pound sterling\*) to: Internet Library of Unintended Irony 666 Avenue of the Martyrs Lagos, Nigeria \*the British edition of anything is far, far more edifying than the alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/834 "2010-04-14T21:50:05Z")
Anyone get the feeling he’s just getting warmed up? I’m hoping that one of these pages consists of one big post by Finn Again[SUP]40[/SUP]. That’ll amuse my tiny, inferior mind immensely. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/835 "2010-04-14T22:00:55Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Hi, this quote has been selected for inclusion in the Internet Library of Unintended Irony, edition XXXIII. > > To secure your copy, handsomely bound in common marmoset-skin, with raised lettering to facilitate reading, send $79.95 (or for the British edition, 103.70 pound sterling\*) to: > > Internet Library of Unintended Irony > 666 Avenue of the Martyrs > Lagos, Nigeria > \*the British edition of anything is far, far more edifying than the alternatives. Nothing ironic at all. I am demonstrably capable of interacting with people I disagree with as a normal human fashion. Frothy’s problem is he is evidently utterly incapable of the same. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/836 "2010-04-14T22:06:14Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > he is evidently utterly incapable of the same. > [@](#): > > And you keep on lying and claim that any disagreement is classified as dishonesty by me, when I just pointed out to you that Captain Amazing and I were disagreeing quite civil in the thread that spawned this, get this, because he’s not dishonest. You repeat your lie, I am surprised. Go berserk now please. Or say “bilious” ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/837 "2010-04-14T22:54:41Z")
That can’t be it? He must be taking a breath. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/838 "2010-04-15T01:09:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*…From 1967 to the end of 2007, Israel established 121 settlements in the West Bank that were recognized by the Interior Ministry as “communities”, even though some of them contain stretches of land on which the built-up area is not contiguous. 12 other settlements are located on land annexed by Israel in 1967 and made part of Jerusalem. There are additional 100 or so unrecognized settlements, referred to in the media as “outposts.” The 16 settlements built in the Gaza Strip and three settlements in the northern West Bank were dismantled in 2005 during implementation of the “disengagement plan.” > > As part of the regime, Israel has stolen thousands of dunams of land from the Palestinians. On this land, Israel has established dozens of settlements in which hundreds of thousands of Israeli civilians now live. Israel forbids Palestinians to enter and use these lands. The existence of the settlements causes many violations of Palestinians’ human rights, such as the right to housing, to earn a living, and freedom of movement. The sharp changes Israel made to the map of the West Bank make a viable Palestinian state impossible as part of the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination. > > The settlers, on the other hand, benefit from all rights given to citizens of Israel who live inside the Green Line, and in some instances, even additional rights. The great effort Israel has expended in the settlement enterprise – financially, legally, and bureaucratically – has turned the settlements into civilian enclaves within an area under military rule and has given the settlers a preferred status. To perpetuate this unlawful situation, Israel has continuously violated the Palestinians’ human rights. > > Especially conspicuous is Israel’s manipulative use of the law to create a semblance of legality for the settlement enterprise. So long as Jordanian law assisted Israel in advancing its goals, it seized the argument that international law requires that an occupying state apply the law in effect in the territory prior to occupation, thus construing international law in a cynical and tendentious way. When Jordanian law was unfavorable for Israel, Israel did not hesitate to revoke it though military legislation and develop new rules to meet its ends. In doing so, Israel tramples on international agreements to which it is party – agreements which are intended to reduce human rights violations and protect people under occupation. > > Because the very establishment of the settlements is illegal, and in light of the human rights violations resulting from the existence of the settlements, B’Tselem demands that Israel evacuate the settlements. The action must be done in a way that respects the settlers’ human rights, including the payment of compensation.\*\* From here: [**B’TSELEM**](http://www.btselem.org/English/Settlements/Index.asp) Again with the self-hating Israelis. Really, what’s wrong with these people? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/839 "2010-04-15T01:20:13Z")
[**Taking control of the land in the West Bank**](http://www.btselem.org/English/Settlements/Taking_Control.asp) > [@](#): > > \*\*Israel has used a complex legal and bureaucratic mechanism to take control of more than fifty percent of the land in the West Bank. This land was used mainly to establish settlements and to create reserves of land for the future expansion of the settlements. > > During the course of the second intifada, Israel also surrounded settlements with rings of land closed to Palestinians, did nothing to eliminate the phenomenon of piratical closing of land, and even retroactively approved such piratical closing with a variety of means, among them the “special security area” plan. > > The principal tool used to take control of land is to declare it “state land.” This process began in 1979 and is based on a manipulative implementation of the Ottoman Lands Law of 1858, which applied in the area at the time of occupation. Other methods employed by Israel to take control of land include seizure for military needs, declaration of land as “abandoned assets,” and the expropriation of land for public needs. Each of these is based on a different legal foundation. In addition, Israel has assisted private citizens purchasing land on the “free market.” > > The process employed in taking control of land breaches the basic principles of due procedure and natural justice. In many cases, Palestinian residents were unaware that their land was registered in the name of the state, and by the time they discovered this fact, it was too late to appeal. The burden of proof always rests with the Palestinian claiming ownership of the land. Even if he meets this burden, the land may still be registered in the name of the state on the grounds that it was transferred to the settlement “in good faith.” > \*\* Source? The same [self-haters](http://www.btselem.org/English/Settlements/Taking_Control.asp) as the prior cite. Type your fingers to the bone, **Oh Frothy One**. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/840 "2010-04-15T01:40:02Z")
> [@](#): > > While I’m at it, you shrugged off your slander of Tenet with a joke and then tried to change the subject (shocka!) but how did a non-Jew end up on your list of Traitor Jews? What criteria, exactly, are you using other than whether or not they’re in politics and you think they’re a Jew? Nor was your apology for accidentally slandering the man, but for accidentally calling him a Jew. Funny, that. > > Let’s look at a few others, shall we? > > -Michael Chertoff, he’s a Jew. Now why don’t you explain why you accused him of treachery in service of a foreign power? > -Eric Lynn, Obama’s liaison to the Jewish community who helped sell Obama’s policies and now a political adviser. Identify why you accused him of treachery in service of a foreign power. > -Lee Feinstein, worked on the Non-Proliferation Project, worked as a political advisor. Why did you accuse him of being a traitor, or did his last name just ‘sound Jewish’ to you? > -David Axelrod, a political strategist and one of the chief architects of Obama’s campaign. Why did you accuse him of being a traitor, or was it just another case of you remembering someone whose name sounded Jewish to you? > -Elliot Abrams, he committed the (grave) of serving as an advisor during the US’ handling of the Israel-Hezbollah war of 2006. Is this just an example of you finding any Jew whose political opinions might disagree with your, and using classic anti-Semitic slurs to tarnish his reputation? > -Kenneth Adelman, same deal, a guy whose politics you disagree with (I guess supporting the Iraq War and then saying that it was a horrible mistake) so you get a bit racist on his ass? > -David Frum, yet another guy who you have political disagreements with, so you think it’s okay to use racist filth to slander him as a traitor? > > Just curious, and to be honest I’d like to use you as an object lesson about the insidiously pedestrian nature of modern anti-Semitism. I’ll also be using your fellow travelers in this thread as object lessons as well. Let’s see how many have the courage to call you out for your behavior, and how many are willing to turn a blind eye to racism as long as the racist is using that sludge to rail against Israel or Traitorous Jewish Control of The United States. > > So either support your insinuations, or admit that the facts come second to your racism. Either way, should be fun. (Or, I guess, try to change the subject with another link to something that you’re angry with Israel about) How’d I guess, yet another bit of avoidance (and still none of your coterie have objected to your blatant racism), and another non sequitor link to whatever you’re annoyed with Israel about. And nice selective quoting. One might even call it cherrypicking. Even groups like Peace Now in their most strident criticisms have confirmed the fact that the clear majority of settlement land in the West Bank is not on privately owned Palestinian land. Of course, B’tselem’s opinions should be taken with a pumpkin-sized grain of salt, as they’ve proved that they’re more than willing to shade the truth to sell their agenda. For instance, they routinely list Palestinian terrorists/militants killed during attacks on Israel in the same categories that they do normal Palestinian civilians. Although the functional use of this tactic is to artificially inflate casualty counts to make it look like Palestinian civilians are killed as collateral damage than actually are, they have claimed that this is simply because terrorists are not uniformed armed forces, then they should be counted as civilians. Of course, B’Tselem is perfectly able to identify Palestinians as terrorists/militants when they’re killing _other_ Palestinians. Funny, that. Anyways Red, I know you’d like to change the subject to something else, but why don’t you tell us all what basis you used to slander anybody in politics whose name sounded Jewish to you. What, for instance, did Rahm Emanuel do to dserve your racist accusations other than that he happened to be a Jew whose name you recognized and who was in politics? Any time now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923.md?page=43)