# Finn Again's Wake **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 18, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923 "2010-03-18T19:10:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/921 "2010-04-22T00:13:23Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > No, he’s making factual points that others are unable or unwilling to rebut, and providing evidence to show that they made false statements. > > Because his critics are unable or unwilling to rebut his facts, they’re engaging in ad homenim attacks of him, calling him an Israeli apologist, criticizing him for making long posts, and claiming he has Aspergers Syndrome. **WRONG.** I’m making no ad hominem attacks. That would require me to be attacking his statements by insulting him. I’m not attacking his statements. I don’t give a shit about his points, or if he is right or wrong. My participation in this thread is for the sole purpose of castigating one of the most obnoxious blowhards on this board, a poster whose self-awareness is so tragically lacking that he can’t even conceive of someone disagreeing with him unless they are racists and liars. It’s not that he makes “long posts”. That is the sort of fucking understatement that should be celebrated by the International Board of Understatement Appreciation. **FinnAgain** is well beyond “long posts”; he’s into the realm of Ted Kaczynski and other crazy obsessive weirdos. I seriously would not be at all surprised to see him on the news shooting up a 7-11 or bombing a bus full of brown people. If, as the shithead in question claims, all of these people are just liars and trolls, then why does he continue to participate? I’ll tell you. It’s because he is some flavor of autistic or obsessive compulsive, or else it’s because his fragile self-esteem doesn’t allow him to ever, ever back down. I wish he’d get banned for his bullshit, but alas, there is no rule against being an officious boring yeast infection of an intellectual. Either way, don’t pretend I’m just not able to debate him on the geopolitical situation, because that’s not the point. Readers will take note that the fat douchebag isn’t worth debating because he is as guilty of intellectual dishonesty and polemics as anyone he argues with. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/922 "2010-04-22T00:34:03Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > And of course, that fact alone gives such cites _enormous_ added credibility. But the fact that Red continually uses token Jews to argue a point, while daring anybody to call them self-hating at the same time as he accuses anybody in politics who has a Jewish sounding name of being a traitor… and alleges that he’s being accused of racism simply for disagreeing with Israeli policies? That’s somewhat interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/923 "2010-04-22T00:44:39Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > You know, just repeatedly _saying_ it’s anti-Semitic doesn’t make it so. If you can’t see how it is, I don’t know what I can say to explain it to you. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/924 "2010-04-22T00:55:00Z")
**Jack** , I link to the following article for your consideration: [**Israel’s Dubai Hit Continues the Country’s Moral Decline**](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/antony-loewenstein/israels-dubai-hit-continu_b_498255.html) Some key excerpts: > [@](#): > > \*\*Israel is facing a revolt from the Jewish Diaspora. > > “Intifada” is an Arabic word meaning “shaking off,” as one would violently discard a scorpion. Israel is managing its own “intifada” from within. > > [I write as a 36-year-old Australian Jew who has recently signed](http://www.greenleft.org.au/2010/829/42634), with 37 Australian Jews, a petition in which I renounced my right of return to Israel. I simply couldn’t accept the dispossession of Palestinians while my rights were deemed more important than the indigenous inhabitants. > > \ > > I was saddened to see the leaders of the Australian Jewish community remain either silent or incapable of condemning the abuse of Australian passports. They will defend every Israeli action like a mantra. > > \ > > I am a Jew who feels deeply implicated in Israel’s reckless behaviour and cannot remain silent anymore. > > While a recent Gallop poll in America found that [for the first time since 1991 more than six in ten respondents said their sympathies in the Middle East lay more with the Israelis than the Palestinians](http://www.gallup.com/poll/126155/Support-Israel-Near-Record-High.aspx?version=print), these figures are deceptive. Studies of young American Jews finds a growing disillusionment with the Jewish state and inter-marriage is contributing to the Zionist brain-drain. The internet has opened my eyes to these trends, a rejection of the post-Holocaust reliance on blind adherence to Israel…\*\* Thoughts? Self-hater? Anti-Semite if that’s even possible? Or merely a dissenting and growing voice amongst Jews vis-a-vis Israeli policy? Not going to cite this rather lengthy article by another confessed self-hating Jew, though a tad dated I think it very much relevant to both this thread and the false accusations being thrown about. Read at your own peril: [**For American Jews, Dissent Against Israel Has Become Mainstream**](http://www.alternet.org/story/62618/) * * * Lastly, how about this: [**Israel to use ‘ordinary’ people for PR**](http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=168898) > [@](#): > > \*\*In a campaign initiated by Yuli Edelstein’s Ministry for Public Diplomacy and the Diaspora, Israelis will be invited to learn how to present a positive message to the world from pocket pamphlets that will be distributed at Ben-Gurion Airport, the new Web site, masbirim.gov.il, and from training workshops across the country. > > Varied groups will be invited to attend the workshops, including politicians, diplomats, retired generals, businessmen, tour guides, celebrities, athletes, youth group delegations and ordinary Israelis. > > “In light of Israel’s negative image in the world, we realized that Israel had to counter the vast sums of money available to Arab countries for propaganda by taking advantage of our human resources,” Edelstein said. “We decided to give Israelis who go abroad tools and tips to help them deal with the attacks on Israel in their conversations with people, media appearances and lectures before wide audiences. I hope we succeed together in changing the picture and proving to the world that there is a different Israel.” > > Edelstein called the initiative Tsva Hasbara LeYisrael, the Israeli Public Diplomacy Forces, based on the Hebrew name of the IDF.\*\* If the Israeli Government themselves weren’t aware of the country’s bad image worldwide, why would they launch this campaign? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/925 "2010-04-22T00:56:14Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > But the fact that Red continually uses token Jews to argue a point, while daring anybody to call them self-hating at the same time as he accuses anybody in politics who has a Jewish sounding name of being a traitor… and alleges that he’s being accused of racism simply for disagreeing with Israeli policies? > That’s somewhat interesting. “Token Jews”! LMAO! Thanks for that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/926 "2010-04-22T01:11:10Z")
Oh, for sure, Jews toke, I’ve toked with them. Pretty much the same, really. Only thing is, after they roll a doob, they clip off the end… ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/927 "2010-04-22T01:20:03Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, for sure, Jews toke, I’ve toked with them. Pretty much the same, really. Only thing is, after they roll a doob, they clip off the end… Well **'luc** , thanks to **Finn** and your further insight, the SDMB has just earned a whole eight bucks from moi. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/928 "2010-04-22T03:00:31Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Perle and Wolfowitz both worked for the US government before they wrote a word for the PNAC. A good example of your deceptiveness. They worked for the government, then they didn’t, then they did again. All of which is irrelevant to the point. Perle wrote the policy paper for Israel in 1996, when he was out of office. When he got back in under Bush, he participated in implementing the same policy he had outlined for Israel. Why are you talking about PNAC in connection with this policy paper? The policy paper in question (entitled [A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realm)) was written for Benjamin Netanyahu on behalf of the **Study Group on a New Israeli Strategy Toward 2000**. Perle was the study group leader. The study group was part of the [Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Advanced_Strategic_and_Political_Studies), an Israel-based think tank with an affiliated office in Washington. > [@](#): > > 1. Likewise, you are lying when you describe the PNAC’s agenda, which in fact was not simply “the removal of Sadaam” but that Israel should _distance itself from US support, not use its economic aid or military support and work only with regional powers to remove Sadaam._ That you are continually ‘conveniently forgetting’ those essential bits and claiming that agenda is exactly what we did in Iraq shows that you are hoping that if you repeat your lie often enough, it will stick. From the [Policy Paper](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realm): “Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on **removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq — an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right** — as a means of foiling Syria’s regional ambitions.” The paper was written when Clinton was in office, so of course the removal of Hussein would have had to have been carried out by indirect means. When Bush came in, a more direct approach became possible. As I said in the original thread, I am not arguing for some dark conspiracy. These men supported Israel, and I believe that colored their thinking in pursuing the Iraq war. Nor did I say that they alone pushed us into war. As I said in the original thread, it was a confluence of interests that took us to war. Israel’s interest was but one of the concerns in play. Rather than re-hash this whole argument, I again encourage anyone still following this train wreck to go back and read [the original thread where all this came up](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=387638). Then decide for yourselves how **Finn** ’s distortions fit what I have actually said. > [@](#): > > …your paranoid conspiracy fantasy about AIPAC being a den of Israeli agents in the US makes no sense… Sorry, where did I say that? Stop lying about what I have said, jackass. Is honest debate simply not possible for you? Also, quit editing my posts to make out of context statements seem like they fit your distortions. That is some slimy shit. If you want to quote me, quote me in full and in context. > [@](#): > > Your narrative is built on fiction and racist paranoia. Sorry, how is it racist? Particularly when most American Jews did not support Bush or his war in Iraq? Once again for clarity: “AIPAC” is not the same as “American Jews,” much as you might like it to be. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/929 "2010-04-22T03:10:07Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury;12369641[url=[http://www.alternet.org/story/62618/](http://www.alternet.org/story/62618/)] **For American Jews, Dissent Against Israel Has Become Mainstream** …Thoughts? [/QUOTE] When Republicans see J.C. Watts, Bobby Jindal and Michael Steele up on the podium at rallies, their hearts must thrill with pride at the vast diversity the party represents. Anyone who argues otherwise is denying the [del]carefully cherry-picked[/del] evidence arrayed against them. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/930 "2010-04-22T03:13:40Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > If you can’t see how it is, I don’t know what I can say to explain it to you. I’m quite sure you can’t. It would be like explaining to me how the sky is green. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/931 "2010-04-22T03:15:23Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > …Sorry, how is it racist? Particularly when most American Jews did not support Bush or his war in Iraq?.. Obviously, because those that don’t toe **Finn’s** line are “token Jews\*,” therefore, that clearly makes you a RACIST. Sophistry knows no boundaries. As opposed to your common sense rebuttals. \*Proud member of. Care to join? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/932 "2010-04-22T03:27:25Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > When Republicans see J.C. Watts, Bobby Jindal and Michael Steele up on the podium at rallies, their hearts must thrill with pride at the vast diversity the party represents. > > Anyone who argues otherwise is denying the [del]carefully cherry-picked[/del] evidence arrayed against them. That’s all you have to say vs the _copious evidence_ provided? That Jews against current Israeli policy are outliers? This being The Pit, I suppose you can get away with such bullshit. Or else you can provide a neutral cite. And a pony. ~Token Jew Outlier ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/933 "2010-04-22T03:44:53Z")
It’s real simple despite your doges, or Lucy’s doges, or Red trying to change the subject: “[ethnic group] are [pejorative] due to their membership in that [ethnic group]” is a racist thing to say. See: “Blacks are potential criminals due to their ethnic identity.” “Arabs are potential terrorists due to their ethnic identity.” “Jews are unable to be trusted to hold different opinions than spoke and are potentially either active traitors or blinded and unable to tell two countries apart, due to their ethnic identity.” Oh, and in before your lie that you’ve never weaselly hinted that it’s reasonable to accuse Jew of an inability to disagree with you and analyze facts if they don’t agree with you due to the traitorous influence of their ethnicity… > [@](#): > > if I were to make that same criticism of American Jews – that they were allowing their faith (or ethicity, whatever) to influence their views on US policy toward Israel, the howls of “ANTISEMITE!!!” would shake the rafters. > [@spoke-](#): > > A good example of your deceptiveness. Pointing out the fact that you’re lying is deceptive? I think you need a dictionary, bucko. Of course “they were long-time government eployees with decades of experience between them, and they did some consulting when they were out of power” sounds a good bit less, what’s the phrase, oh yeah, conspiratorial than “they were writing policy papers for Israel and then going to work for the US government in pursuit of the very policy they mentioned as a priority for Israel” Speaking of your relentless dishonesty: > [@spoke-](#): > > When he got back in under Bush, he participated in implementing the same policy he had outlined for Israel. Again, why do you lie quote so blatantly? I’ve already cited and quoted the paper and pointed out your lie here… your response is to ignore the rebuttal and reiterate your lie. Why do you even do that? Rather obviously, they didn’t “implement the same policy” as that policy was for Israel to work, completely without US economic aid and military forces, with the nations of the region to secure their mutual goals. But again, that too sounds less conspiratorial than " ZOMG, Zionist traitors dominated US foreign policy!" > [@spoke-](#): > > Why are you talking about PNAC I can imagine it’s hard to keep track of your racist paranoia, eh? Your original Conspiracy Theory about potential Israeli agents (who just ‘happen’ to be Jewish, honest!) was in the service of you demonizing the PNAC and Wolfowitz, et al. [ > [@](#): > > On the other hand, I think it is wrong to dismiss the influence of Israel on American foreign policy. > > Current US policy was conceived in conservative think tanks, chief among them the Project for the New American Century (PNAC). Browsing through its website should convince you pretty quickly of its strong support for Israel. > > Among PNAC’s contributors in the late 1990s were a number of conservative supporters of Israel, including Richard Perle (who would later become chairman of the Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee, which advises the Department of Defense) and Paul Wolfowitz (who would later become Deputy Secretary of Defense for George W. Bush). > […] > Now does all of this add up to a “conspiracy” or the presence of Israeli agents in the US government? Not necessarily. But what is very clear is that the Bush administration has included a lot of people with uncomfortably close ties to Israel. > > It is not necessary that Perle, Wolfowitz and the others be actual agents for Israel. It is enough cause for concern that they have very close personal ties to Israel. And that is enough to cause me to wonder whether their concern for Israel might cloud their judgment about what is best for the US, or that they might actually conflate in their own minds the interests of Israel and the interests of the US. That is the danger in my view. ]([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7765654&postcount=22](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7765654&postcount=22)) > [@spoke-](#): > > The paper was written when Clinton was in office, so of course the removal of Hussein would have had to have been carried out by indirect means. When Bush came in, a more direct approach became possible. And you just ‘happen’ to ignore the whole part about no US aid no US troops and how that was essential to the dynamic. It couldn’t be so that you could spin your conspiracy nonsense, naw. Likewise, since the fact that Sadaam _was_ a security threat to Israel and you can’t rebut that fact, you just blabber on about how merely pointing out that fact and urging Israel to deal with it _on its own_ points to a dastardly Zionist conspiracy years later. :rolleyes: And trying to explain to you why it’s significant that you can’t spare a word for Carville, Rumsfeld or Cheney, but Jews with the wrong political opinions are automatically suspected of treason… well, I guess it’s like trying to explain to you why your narrative is built on paranoid racist conspiracy mongering. Or why the sky is green, I keep forgetting. > [@spoke-](#): > > As I said in the original thread, I am not arguing for some dark conspiracy. Yeah, you say a lot of stuff. > [@spoke-](#): > > Sorry, where did I say that? Liars need to have good memories spoke. People who build their narratives on racist paranoia and lies, doubly so. Maybe you should try ginko or something? Where did you state that a group of Americans lobying for their political beliefs were really agents of the Israeli government? > [@](#): > > It is no conspiracy theory to state that Israel actively lobbies the US government. (See the American Israel Public Affairs Committee mentioned above.) Ginko spoke, ginko. Go back to identifying Jews and ignoring gentiles who advocated Sadaam’s removal and then claiming that only those Jews are possibly secret Dual Loyalist traitors who can’t be trusted because they’re not part of a conspiracy, exactly, they’re all just individually working to subvert America for Israel’s benefit because they’re so crazed by their ethnicity that they can’t tell the difference anymore. But you are shocked, shocked, at why anybody might think that racist (speaking of which, you spoken up yet about Red’s racist tactic of naming anybody who he thinks is Jewish in the US government and calling them a traitor?) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/934 "2010-04-22T04:17:36Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > That’s all you have to say vs the copious evidence provided? That Jews against current Israeli policy are outliers? No, no, of course not. After all you found examples _on the Internets_. What could be more convincing? Like with women, who _supposedly_ are great supporters of abortion rights. Any time you can find anti-abortion rights websites which are _chock full_ of testimonials from women whose lives have been _ruined_ by legal access to abortion. And even Roe of _Roe v. Wade_ is now anti-abortion! It’s a movement!! The days of legalized abortion are numbered, you wait and see. :dubious: > [@elucidator](#): > > Why wouldn’t we expect (Jewish Dual Loyalty), given that otherwise loyal Americans spied for the Soviets due to their unjustifiable loyalty to international Communism. > [@spoke-](#): > > And that, of course, is the insidiousness of the Debate by Smear. It tamps down dissent. It keeps others from joining the debate for fear of being labeled a “bigot” or “racist” or some other evil “-ite” or “-ist.” > > Joe McCarthy knew that. You guys are great! You should’ve been in vaudeville\*. \*Rumor has it that **elucidator** actually _was_ in vaudeville on the Orpheum circuit, until his promising career doing impressions of W.C. Fields and Emma Goldman was ruined by the invention of television. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/935 "2010-04-22T04:22:41Z")
From the [original thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=387638): > [@spoke-](#): > > As I’ve said before, in this thread and others, it seems to me that rather than a “conspiracy” as such, there is a convergence of special interests (one of which is Israel) which combined to create a momentum that led to war. > > Different persons in power may have had different reasons for wanting to see the US at war in the Middle East. Look at who benefits. Oil companies benefit. Halliburton benefits. The defense industry benefits. Saudi Arabia benefits. Defense hawk politicians benefit. And yes, Israel benefits. All of those special interests have persons representing them in or very close to the Bush administration. Does this mean they got together in a back room somewhere and potted to take the US to war, laughing all the while at how they were duping the American people? No. > > Maybe they naively believed that they really could “transform” the Middle East. Maybe they really thought that democracy would bloom. But if they thought that, they were deluded. And maybe they were able to delude themselves more easily than should have been the case becuase it wasn’t only US interests they had in mind. Maybe in the backs of their minds they were thinking “Hmm. I can see how Halliburton/Israel/Exxon/Lockheed could really benefit from this policy direction.” > > In other words, maybe their evaluations of American interests were clouded by the other interests policymakers had in mind. Hey, if you want to paint that line of thought as an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory, knock yourself out. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/936 "2010-04-22T04:32:16Z")
Oh, and it can hardly have escaped **RedFury** ’s notice that without exception, _everyone_ posting in this thread has to my knowledge expressed disagreement with some aspect(s) of Israeli policy at one time or another. Obviously, some have not been sufficiently vituperative about the undiluted evil that Israel represents (probably due to their ethnic orientation or outright being on the payroll of Mossad, which we cannot prove but for which there is circumstantial evidence and about which we must be _vewy vewy careful_) and They must be watched very carefully, very carefully indeed. We must be vigilant. 😕:eek:😕 ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/937 "2010-04-22T04:40:50Z")
Toadie to an Asperger’s addled social misfit? Really, Mini-Me, set your sights a little higher. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/938 "2010-04-22T04:54:01Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > What could be more convincing? But, he found a token Jew and everything! And there were, like, a whole 24 Australian Jews who agreed (or 27, or something), it’s a _revolution._ It’s very important that when Red has an anti-Israel idea, he can say “See, a Jew also has it! That shows that in general I’m not a racist. Now let’s look at anybody in American politics who has a Jewish name and accuse them of treason.” I mean, surely there’s a perfectly good reason that Red constantly goes out of his way to find a token Jew for any position he’s advocating and shout “See, _a Jew! A Jew agrees_! Go and call him self-hating, I dare you, I dare you!!!” > [@Jackmannii](#): > > You guys are great! Well, I mean, spoke’s got a really valid point. It’s totally smearing him in order to tamp down the discussion when all he’d like to do is discuss just how treacherous Jews are who dare to disagree with him. It’s like, anybody who says that Jews are potential traitors due to their ethnicity, and we need to watch them closely for their dastardly Jew Treachery? They get accused of racism or something. Next thing you know they’ll be trying to say that arguing about how being black might make you prone to watermelon thievery is racist too. How silly! > [@spoke-](#): > > Hey, if you want to paint that line of thought You mean the one that’s already been identified and proven with your own words, or the dodge you’re using? “Hey, everybody? All those quotes where I talk about Jews not being trustworthy if they disagree with me too much, and about how it’s reasonable to suspect Jews of Dual Loyalty due to their religion or ethnicity, and how I was making shit up about the PNAC and using them as an instance of my claim of dangerous Israeli “influence” in the same breath as accusing AIPAC of being Israeli agents… all while talking about how lots of Jewish members of Bush’s administration had disturbing ‘close personal ties’ to Israel so we should suspect them of possibly be Israeli agents? Well, don’t look at that, because I kinda weaseled somewhere else. Look at the weaseling and ignore everything else I said.” You’re about as convincing as a Troofer, because both you and them hide your slimy accusations behind weaseling and both of you are just JAQing Off about the evil government or evil Jews. Same difference, same mental caliber. And I note that you still haven’t condemned Red’s blatant racist behavior of naming any Jew he can remember in American politics accusing them all of ethnic-based-treachery without any evidence at all. Because you condone it. Because you sling racist conspiracy theories and you won’t say a thing about blatant racism like Red’s if it’s in service of an anti-Israel partisan. And you feign ignorance. And you feign (greater) stupidity. Why, you assure folks, you’re just plum confused as to why it’s important that you routinely ignore Carville and don’t accuse him of treachery, but a Jew who happened to hold the ‘wrong’ political ideology (that just so happens to disagree with yours, how strange) must not just be suspected of treachery but also may be unable to tell the difference between America and Israel due to the influence of his ethnicity and/or religion. That Carville can work for Labor and you don’t mention it but Wolfowitz can advise Likud and you not only suspect him of possible treachery, and hint that he may be a traitor due to ethnic influence? That means nothing. You assure us. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/939 "2010-04-22T04:56:12Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > It’s real simple despite your doges, or Lucy’s doges… What the fuck do the magistrates of renaissance Italy’s city-states have to do with the issue at hand? Oh, wait, you’re just a fucking idiot who can’t spell because you’re too busy foaming at the mouth. As for the rest of your post, it’s just about as long, boring, and shitty as the rest of your posts, so there’s no point in reading it. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923/940 "2010-04-22T05:18:42Z")
pssst… That’s the dysgraphia. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finn-agains-wake/532923.md?page=48)