# FinnAgain is kind of a shitty person. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 27, 2011, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787 "2011-02-27T08:42:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787/721 "2011-04-01T21:07:52Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Stop being a twat. There would be nthing left of him if did that. Finn has defended a racist/bigoted law as one that is legitimately trying to address security concerns of a nation at war. Despite the fact that tehe supporters of teh law admit that it is it is aimed at preventing terrorist attacks and that “We have to maintain the state’s democratic nature, but also its Jewish nature.” The law is not well designed toa ddress security concerns but it is well designed to slow the growth of the Palestinian population in Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787/722 "2011-04-01T21:11:37Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I am sorry but this is just very stupid. No the “race” of “racism” _never_ means the number 5 definition. No, Chicagoans and those who live on the Jersey Shore, Eastern Orthodox and Catholic Christians, even the Germans and the Brits, are _not_ different “races” in any usual usage, and Chicagoans who think themselves better than those of the Jersey Shore are not “racist”, nor are Brits who hate Germans, nor are Catholics who think themselves superior to the Orthodox. > > Do you also think that “anti-Semitism” means being against Arabs as well as Jews because “[Semite](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/semite)” means “a member of any of various ancient and modern peoples originating in southwestern Asia, including the Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs”? I bet you do. So anti-semitism is bigotry and not racism? So what difference does that make or is it just a matter of the precise use of words? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787/723 "2011-04-01T23:00:22Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Finn has defended a racist/bigoted law Damuri cannot (or will not) post honestly. But we’ve been over[this issue](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13620432&postcount=668) many times. What actually happened is that I corrected Damuri’s factual error. Evidently in his twisted little mind, that means I’ve defended something. Just like pointing out that a criminal profile that mentions that Islamic terrorists follow the religion of Islam isn’t a call to investigate all Muslims or a claim of Muslims-as-terrorists meant that I support… God only knows. Damuri is both stupid and dishonest, and cannot cognitively handle a discussion in anything but the most absurd black and white gloss. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Despite the fact that tehe supporters of teh law admit that it is it is aimed at preventing terrorist attacks and that “We have to maintain the state’s democratic nature, but also its Jewish nature.” :rolleyes: Damuri is quoting (without a cite, naturally)[one single minister’s claim.](http://fr.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1145961344738&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter) long after the law was instituted. The fact is that the law was instituted due to security fears even while some argue that it is, in effect, discriminatory along ethnic lines or that it has a ‘secret’ racial component: [ > [@](#): > > Between 1967 and 2002, the common practice regarding family reunifications of Arab Israelis with spouses residing in the areas of Gaza and the West Bank was to allow the Israeli spouse to file (and in most cases obtain)a permitt or bring the non‐Israeli spouse to live in Israel. 75 However, following the March 31, 2002 suicide attack in Haifa carried out by Hamas member Shadi Tubasim—who had succeeded in entering Israel through the family reunification program for Arab Israelis and residents—the Interior Ministry temporarily stopped all pending reunification requests.76 The temporary freeze was then followed by the approval of the Nationality and Entry into Israel (Temporary Order) Law, (5763 – 2003),77 > […] > The Supreme Court delivered its opinion in May 2006 and dismissed the petition (by a vote of 6‐5). It did so on the grounds that the law does not violate a constitutional right (since citizens have no constitutional right for their spouses to immigrate to Israel), especially considering the state of war between the area and Israel and the security needs of the state 83 Justice Adiel and Justice Rivlin concurred in upholding the law, but added that the provision does violate the right to family, although“the violation of the constitutional right is proportionate,” given the security circumstances. 84 Justice Levy also upheld the law, but added: “If changes are not made, the law will be unlikely to satisfy judicial scrutiny in the future.”85 The minority opinion, delivered by Justice Barak, on the other hand, found that the law violated Article 2 and 4 of the Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty (right to family life and right to equality) and that although appropriate in its scope—based upon legitimate security concerns—the law failed to meet all the proportionality requirements. 86 > […] > The internal disagreements over the scope of the Nationality and Entry into Israel Law reveal the difficulties that Israel faces vis‐à‐vis adhering to its constitutive equality provision and liberal citizenship principles in the face of ongoing political/security threats and the governmentʹs supreme responsibility to protect its citizens. In this sense, the Supreme Court’s judicial scrutiny could offer a venue by which the Court could push the State to modify the controversial law and restrike a balance in favor of all Israelʹs citizens. > […] > The analysis of the evolution of the Nationality Law in Israel and the case study on the status and rights of Arab Israelis demonstrate how the above‐mentioned citizenship models continue to shape and influence the current legal framework, which continuously attempts to accommodate these diverging conceptions and needs. Often, this framework places pragmatic needs and flexibility above internal coherence and consistency. ]([Redirect Notice](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDAQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffletcher.tufts.edu%2Fal_nakhlah%2Farchives%2FSpring2009%2FTheIsraeliCitizenshipModel.pdf&rct=j&q=March%2031%2C%202002%20%20israel%20bombing%20%20Shadi%20Tubasim&ei=t0qWTaq4N6iR0QHX7qz7Cw&usg=AFQjCNHSTkmkcqZeWj2UCvlSGUflMhn5JQ&sig2=nSDGkXZbRRxT1dvomDTDFA&cad=rja)) [ > [@](#): > > According to Gnessin, in 2009, Israeli security forces foiled at the last second 40 mass terrorist attacks which had already been planned and were about to be executed. In 2008, the figure was 63; in 2007, 42. In two months of 2010, the Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) has foiled seven such attacks. > > Gnessin added that 54 Palestinians who received residential status in Israel have so far been involved in terrorist attacks. Of these, 27 were directly involved in such attacks in 2008 or 2009. > > She also said that after the temporary law was changed in 2005, allowing for the possibility of exceptions to the sweeping ban on residential status for Palestinian men up to the age of 35, and women up to the age of 25, the authorities granted status to 632 Palestinians. However, when these Palestinian spouses applied to extend their status, 273 were found to have become involved in security violations. This, she said, proved that Palestinians living in Israel only became attractive to the terrorist organizations after they received Israeli documents allowing them to move about freely. It also proved that the Shin Bet could not know in advance which Palestinians might cooperate with terrorists in the future and which would not. > > On the other hand, statistical analysis showed that there was a 96 percent correlation between terrorist activity and males between the ages of 18 and 35. ]([Israel News: Updates on Israeli Politics, Security & Diplomacy | The Jerusalem Post](http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=170067)) And of course there are some who will support the law for demographic purposes (notice, of course, that Damuri’s original claim was not that it was nuanced, but that it was simply racist and aimed at demographics.) The situation is anything but simple, or cut and dry. A ranting idiot who can’t discuss it intelligently without simply shouting “You’re defending racism, you’re a racist!” is hardly an asset in a discussion on an issue as complicated as security in Israel. This is the same narrative-driven willful ignorance that seeks to handwave away a complex situation as “pseudocomplexity” and give one side white hats and the other black hats. Of course it’s possible to oppose the law on its merits, but Damuri is so stupid that he believes pointing out the facts about it makes one a bigot. I don’t care to discuss pragmatics or ethics with someone like Damuri who simply refuses to discuss anything honestly. Nuance simply doesn’t fit into Damuri’s ramblings. And as he’s admitted, every new piece of information is something he instinctively crams into an anti-Israel narrative, and takes no personality responsibility for that as he claims that it’s my fault and that I control his mind. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787/724 "2011-04-02T01:07:07Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’ve substantiated it several times now. Nope. Not even once. You may want to look up the word “substantiate” you ignorant twit. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Your only defense seems to be that you have never actually said the words “I want to investigate all muslims” which is fine because I never said you said those exact words. Nope. I’ve said flatly more than once that I do NOT advocate investigating all Muslims. That it would not be helpful. Even counter-productive. I have also said numerous times that acceptable substantiation needn’t be verbatim. Just something that goes directly to actually substantiating your bullshit. Oh, SURPRISE! It doesn’t exist. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > When you advocate for filtering for all muslims because using the other filters without the muslim filter, you would end up missing some muslim terrorists. You would lose them only _after_ you applied other filters. That’s a fault with the subsequent filters. Your strategy suffers from the same deficiency. But the fact remains that the Fort Hood asshole would, indeed, have been contained in my first filter, as he is a Muslim. And the use of ANY filters, mine or yours, is a strategy you employ in the hopes of identifying the barbaric assholes. Simply ascribing to that strategy is no guarantee that you will catch everyone. If only it were that easy. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > When did I become a Muslim? Or are you under the impression taht only a muslim would object to bigotry against muslims? I’ve said I’ma Christian several times on this board. Perhaps I’m a secret Muslim like obama. I explained this. You’re user named sounded Middle Eastern to me and I assumed—mistakenly—that you were Muslim. The error is mine. If you thought it an insult of any sort, I will even apologize. As it stands, I admit my error. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787/725 "2011-04-02T23:58:59Z")
**DA** , here is one example of why I am not going to attempt to have a serious discussion with you. You go from posting this on 3/30 at 5:22 PM: > [@](#): > > I don’t think Israelis are bad any more than Americans under George Bush were bad. to then claiming that your comments about America were exclusively > [@](#): > > talking about Jim Crow south 26 hours later. It’s not enough that you misrepresent what others post; you have to misrepresent your own posts as well. You show no evidence of wanting to have an honest discussion, and I have no reason to believe that debating you in this venue has value for any “lurkers” who may be about. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787/726 "2011-04-06T22:08:25Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Nope. Not even once. You may want to look up the word “substantiate” you ignorant twit. You may not like or accept my substantiation but substantiation doesn’t mean proving it to your satisfaction. [quote] Nope. I’ve said flatly more than once that I do NOT advocate investigating all Muslims. [quote] Yes after you said things that would ineveitably lead to investigfation of all muslims. So you have chagned your position based on the results of your original position and thats great but taht doesn’t chagen the fact that your original position was effectively to investigate all muslims. I don’t know why I let you divert the conversation into this picayune issue (its very Finnesque of you) because the point being made was Finn hypocrisy in condemning the questioning of Jews based on their Jewishness while not being particularly bothered by your attitude towards muslims presumably because you are on the same side of the Israel debate as him. > [@](#): > > You would lose them only _after_ you applied other filters. That’s a fault with the subsequent filters. Your strategy suffers from the same deficiency. But the fact remains that the Fort Hood asshole would, indeed, have been contained in my first filter, as he is a Muslim. Are you whooshing me? You want to filter for muslimness and then apply OTHER filters to the population of muslims to get the terrorists. I said, why not just apply those other filters to begin with, how does applying the muslim filter help you? You said that the other filters might not catch all the terrorists. SO… How do you catch the muslim terrorists that the other filters do not catch without investigating all the muslims? Once the Fort Hood terrorist (assuming you don’t filter him out for being a military doctor) is filtered in for being muslims, which filter would have caught him? He didn’t travel to suspect places, he didn’t have any obvious connections with terrorists or radicals. You would have had to investigate him to figure out he was a terrorist. How would you have picked him out for investigation? OR would you have had to investigate all Muslims before you figured out that a muslim military doctor was a terrorist? > [@](#): > > And the use of ANY filters, mine or yours, is a strategy you employ in the hopes of identifying the barbaric assholes. Simply ascribing to that strategy is no guarantee that you will catch everyone. If only it were that easy/ Did you miss the cite to where I say that simply applying all those other filters without applying the muslim filter would catch virtually all the terrorsits and your response was ton highlight the words “virtually all” your methodology would catch ALL muslim terrosits. Well HOW would it catch ALL muslim terrorists without investigating ALL muslims? Like I said, you may not have realized the effect of your suggestion that we filter all muslims FIRST and then apply other filters (like who had been to Pakistan or have had contact with knwon terrorists/radicals) you are doing two things, you are filtering out terrorists that you have not identified as muslims (like I said before, how do you knwo who the muslims are? Do they wear armbands with yellow crescents on them?) and you do not filter in anyone unless you intend to investigate ALL Muslims. IOW your desire to filter muslims to find terrorists is based purely on fear driven racism and Finn’s indifference or intentional ignorance of your racism is in direct contrast with his protests about racism from folks who wonder out loud about the divided loyalty of Jews to America. > [@](#): > > I explained this. You’re user named sounded Middle Eastern to me and I assumed—mistakenly—that you were Muslim. The error is mine. If you thought it an insult of any sort, I will even apologize. I didn’t take offence, I just thought it was interesting that you would think that I was a muslim. [quote] As it stands, I admit my error. [quote] Well, you still need to admit that you were wrong about not advocating for the investigation of all muslims. Or that you are a racist driven by fear. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787/727 "2011-04-06T22:25:46Z")
This thread had been off the front page for days now, and you had to resurrect it with that shit? As punishment, you are hereby sentenced to go be stupid in a corner somewhere. Although, as that’s a bit redundant, just go be in a corner. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787/728 "2011-04-06T22:26:17Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **DA** , here is one example of why I am not going to attempt to have a serious discussion with you. I don’t know that you are capable of that. > [@](#): > > You go from posting this on 3/30 at 5:22 PM: > to then claiming that your comments about America were exclusively You clipped my quote. I asked “wasn’t I talking about Jim Crow?” And now you are saying that I claimed that my comments about America were exclusively about Jim Crow. I the cotext of racism, I didn’t think that the George Bush comment was what you were talking about. > [@](#): > > 26 hours later. It’s not enough that you misrepresent what others post; you have to misrepresent your own posts as well. No that is YOU misprepresenting my quotes. > [@](#): > > You show no evidence of wanting to have an honest discussion, and I have no reason to believe that debating you in this venue has value for any “lurkers” who may be about. And how am I being dishonest? Or does it just make it easier to ignore uncomfortable truths by telling yourself that all your oppsition is dishonest? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787/729 "2011-04-06T22:38:29Z")
To the corner, go. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787/730 "2011-04-06T23:14:15Z")
Seriously **Damuri** , what the hell was so important that you had to come back after four days of posting everywhere but here? Let this idiocy die. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787/731 "2011-04-07T14:26:21Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Seriously **Damuri** , what the hell was so important that you had to come back after four days of posting everywhere but here? Let this idiocy die. > **[Duty Calls](https://xkcd.com/386/)** ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787/732 "2011-04-07T16:51:49Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > [xkcd: Duty Calls](http://xkcd.com/386/) At least you can laugh at yourself. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787/733 "2011-04-08T04:13:19Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > At least you can laugh at yourself. But not as much as everyone else does. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787/734 "2011-04-08T06:09:21Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > [xkcd: Duty Calls](http://xkcd.com/386/) Safe to say, if you’re posting anywhere, someone is indeed wrong on the internet. Your 5-day-late post to me concerns me. The stupid in you is growing. Yes, I know, I thought it not possible myself. I could explain to you for the umpteenth time why so much of what you say about the issue and my positions are wrong, but you’d just protect yourself from reality with your mighty Shield of Stupidity. Here is just one piece of evidence as to why you are an immeasurably stupid and dishonest poster; [QUOTE=Damuri Ajashi] Are you whooshing me? You want to filter for muslimness and then apply OTHER filters to the population of muslims to get the terrorists. [/QUOTE] After all the posts, all the pages, you _just now_ comprehend what I’ve been saying? And are surprised by my position? Unbelievable. You and your shield win. Your stupidity cannot be penetrated. Your dishonesty will not will not take a back seat. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787/735 "2011-04-08T15:19:48Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You and your shield win. Your stupidity cannot be penetrated. Your dishonesty will not will not take a back seat. I’ve said everything that I am going to say on this. You’re a racist (just about anyone that has participated in debates with you think you are a racist, they’re just not allowed to call you taht in great debates), part of the evidence for this is that you want to investigate all muslims (or at least you did) and Finn seems oddly tolerant of your racism while getting very upset by racism from other quarter (read: people who don’t vocally support Israeli racism). ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787/736 "2011-04-08T15:33:49Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’ve said everything that I am going to say on this. You’re a racist (just about anyone that has participated in debates with you think you are a racist, they’re just not allowed to call you taht in great debates), part of the evidence for this is that you want to investigate all muslims (or at least you did) and Finn seems oddly tolerant of your racism while getting very upset by racism from other quarter (read: people who don’t vocally support Israeli racism). You are an idiot. Israel’s only official discriminatory policy (regarding limiting immigration of a specific subset of Palestinians) are based on national origin and a result of the de facto state of war between Israel and some portions of Palestine. Israel has no officially racist policies. While no one with eyes to see will argue that Arabs in Israel “enjoy” the same status as blacks in the United States (that is, discriminated against by some sections of the population and looked down upon by some of the more reactionary politicians), that’s not the same thing as what you’ve accused Israel of. The fact that Magellan has a (in my view, criminally misguided, but that’s not this thread) idea that you can first-pass screen for Muslims as a useful tool for finding terrorists in the US aside, he STILL argues his views better than you do. My prediction–you will keep bumping the thread so as to have the last word, even when it’s clear you’re both wrong and a clown. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787/737 "2011-04-08T15:37:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > you want to investigate all muslims (or at least you did) No, [you were shown to be a liar on that count](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13612553&postcount=612) and were ignoring that even _before_ the cite you used which you claimed supported your statements, Magellan had explicitly said that he did not want to investigate all Muslims, but that he was simply including the fact that Islamic terrorists follow Islam as one datapoint in a full criminal profile. You are a pathetically dishonest schmuck, and you are desperately flailing to create some sort of hypocrisy where none at all exists. Naturally, you’re lying, again. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > > > he “applies a different threshhold for racism against muslims versus Jews” > > Which is of course a lie. > > Show me anybody who says that we have to investigate Muslims in the US government because we can’t trust them not to have “ **very** _close personal ties_” to the Arab nations, or that while they’re not-necessarily-but-possibly-conspirators-and-enemy agents they can’t be trusted to be as rational as white Christians (or, at least, Spoke) and have a political view of what’s best for America without conflating America with a nation half way across the globe. > Do that, and I’ll happily call that person a racist, because \*I actually have the same threshold and some folks are desperately trying to pretend otherwise. > \* > > Point to a field that has an over-representation of American Muslims and claim that that’s prima facia evidence that they’ve formed a cabal to hire/promote other Muslims at the expense of non-Muslims, because ya know Muslims look out for their own and they don’t mind hurting non-Muslims if it helps Muslims and, hey, they’re just clannish like that? Do that, and I’ll be happy to point out that’s racist conspiracy mongering, because \*I actually have the same threshold and some folks are desperately trying to pretend otherwise. > \* > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > while getting very upset by racism from other quarter (read: people who don’t vocally support Israeli racism). Magellan is right, your dishonesty and utter stupidity form a shield of willful ignorance that simply cannot be pierced by facts or logic. Naturally, you are lying yet again, just like you went on a lying binge claiming that I’d ever called you an anti-Semite or implied you were an anti-Semite (after you’d been lying and claiming that I’d “shouted you down” with accusations and then later changed your lie to how I’d coyly suggested you were, instead). Now you’re pretending that I’ve ever called anybody, at all, a racist for not supporting Israel. You are a lying piece of shit and that fact doesn’t trouble you, because you don’t have the integrity God gave pathological liars. Now go to your corner and be stupid at a wall. Maybe you can come back and rant to us about how you know that the wall called you an anti-Semite, or at least it was totally _going to_ if you hadn’t cowed it into submission with your devastating logical abilities. To your corner. Go. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787/738 "2011-04-08T15:47:17Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > You are an idiot. Israel’s only official discriminatory policy (regarding limiting immigration of a specific subset of Palestinians) are based on national origin and a result of the de facto state of war between Israel and some portions of Palestine. Israel has no officially racist policies. That is at best grossly misleading. Israel’s immigration laws are certainly quite discriminatory. Beyond that, Israel doesn’t even pretend to give equal funding to the schools it’s Arab citizens go to as it does it’s Jewish citizens(for those not in the know Jewish and Arab citizens in Israel don’t go to the same schools). When it comes to the religious schools, the discrimination is even more blatant. Yeshivas get all sorts of benefits while Christian and Muslim ones get none. And that is not even counting land laws or water rights much less the way Israel blatantly discriminates against it’s Arab citizens when it comes to joining the military. The Druze face no discrimination and the Bedouins face some, but not as much, but the rest of Israel’s Arab citizens are almost automatically rejected and then have the fact that they’re not veterans used to justify countless other instances of discrimination throughout their lives. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787/739 "2011-04-08T16:03:22Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > That is at best grossly misleading. Israel’s immigration laws are certainly quite discriminatory. Beyond that, Israel doesn’t even pretend to give equal funding to the schools it’s Arab citizens go to as it does it’s Jewish citizens(for those not in the know Jewish and Arab citizens in Israel don’t go to the same schools). When it comes to the religious schools, the discrimination is even more blatant. Yeshivas get all sorts of benefits while Christian and Muslim ones get none. > > And that is not even counting land laws or water rights much less the way Israel blatantly discriminates against it’s Arab citizens when it comes to joining the military. The Druze face no discrimination and the Bedouins face some, but not as much, but the rest of Israel’s Arab citizens are almost automatically rejected and then have the fact that they’re not veterans used to justify countless other instances of discrimination throughout their lives. Theere is no doubt that non-Jews face various forms of discrimination, more or less overt - though the courts have teeth and do strike down actually discriminatory laws affecting citizens. But I do not agree that army recruitment is an example. My understanding is that certain groups are not _conscripted_ - and these include many Arabs (save Bedouin and Druze), but also many Jews - the ultra-Orthodox. I did not know that they were _rejected_ should they apply. According to Wikipedia (not the best source I know) some Arabs apply for “national service” which allows them the same benefits as conscription, and some apply for military service: > [@](#): > > Rather than perform army service, Israeli Arab youths have the option to volunteer to national service and receive benefits similar to those received by discharged soldiers. The volunteers are generally allocated to Arab populations, where they assist with social and community matters. As of 2010[update] there are 1,473 Arabs volunteering for national service. According to sources in the national service administration, Arab leaders are counseling youths to refrain from performing services to the state. According to a National Service official, “For years the Arab leadership has demanded, justifiably, benefits for Arab youths similar to those received by discharged soldiers. Now, when this opportunity is available, it is precisely these leaders who reject the state’s call to come and do the service, and receive these benefits”.[24] > > Although Arabs are not obligated to serve in IDF any Arab could and does serve in Israeli Army. A Muslim Arab woman is currently serving as a medic with unit 669.[25] > **[Israel Defense Forces | Bedouins and Israeli Arabs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces#Bedouins_and_Israeli_Arabs)** > > By law, all Israeli citizens are subject to conscription. The Defense Minister has complete discretion to grant exemption to individual citizens or classes of citizens. A long-standing policy dating to Israel's early years extends an exemption to all other Israeli minorities (most notably Israeli Arabs). However, there is a long-standing government policy of encouraging Bedouins to volunteer and of offering them various inducements, and in some impoverished Bedouin communities a military career s... If this is incorrect, i’d be interested to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787/740 "2011-04-08T16:09:03Z")
Here’s an interesting article on the first non-Bedouin, non-Druze Israeli Arab to become an officer in the Israeli Army: > **[The lone Arab soldier](https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3968706,00.html)** > > His best friends cut ties with him, his fiancé left him and he still gets cursed in the street. But Hisham Abu Varia does not regret becoming the first Arab-Israeli IDF officer. 'You must give back to the country you live off,' he says [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/finnagain-is-kind-of-a-shitty-person/572787.md?page=38)