# Fire ants on the decline in the US?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [November 30, 2016, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451 "2016-11-30T13:52:20Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2016, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451/1 "2016-11-30T13:52:20Z")
Fire ants first started becoming common here in South Carolina in the late 80s/early 90s. They used to be everywhere, and no matter how much poison you used on the mounds, it wasn’t long before a new mound popped up. They are so small that you can’t keep them out of your house with anything short of an airlock, and they know how to cut their way into unopened food packages. They would build small nests in electronics (for the warmth.) I’d hate to guess how many hundreds of times I’ve been stung by them, both inside and out. And it became a rare novelty to see a “normal” larger, non-stinging native ant. They were little short of a biblical-level plague.
And yet, in the past few years I see only a small fraction as many as I used to, either mounds or individuals/lines of them foraging, and “normal” ants are common sights again. Anyone else noticed a decline? Is it possible that some population-controlling factors have come into play?
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### Author:  [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2016, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451/2 "2016-11-30T15:01:31Z")
Here in Texas, we got them in the late 70s - I recall getting stung by one the first time when I was a teenager.
I have wondered if there are fewer mounds than there used to be, or whether it’s just me getting numb to seeing them. When I lived on a typical suburban lot in Plano, I got them all the time, but now I live on a lot that’s completely covered by big trees, and I don’t recall seeing a single mound in my yard in the 15 years I’ve been here. I suspect they like open areas bettter. Because they’re not such of an issue for me anymore, maybe I just don’t notice them as much.
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### Author:  [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2016, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451/3 "2016-11-30T15:07:45Z")
Here’s a [story from 2012](http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/fl-fire-ants-20120325_1_fire-ant-petri-s-positive-pest-control-multiple-queen) about it.
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### Author:  [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451/4 "2016-11-30T15:17:25Z")
After looking through several sites, it does not appear that anyone is reporting any decline in the incidence of the red imported fire ant in America.
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### Author:  [@Vicsage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vicsage)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2016, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451/5 "2016-11-30T15:30:20Z")
Much fewer fire ants in South Florida where I’ve lived for 50 years. Less mosquitoes too. Less honeybees. Less flees, less ticks. Maybe its just that so much more land is paved and urbanized, but come to think of it, I’m not even seeing dragonflies over my pool anymore. They were common a few years ago. And the wasp nests I battled for years around my house also seem gone.
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### Author:  [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)
#### Post date: [November 30, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451/6 "2016-11-30T15:32:22Z")
Oh, that reminds me of [a photo](http://s313.photobucket.com/user/darrengarrison/media/nature/ant_misbehaving.jpg.html) I took in the early 2000s–sitting on my front porch, I noticed a black ant (of unknown native species) doing something pretty active, and I when I got close I saw that it was busily decapitating fire ants–not eating them, just killing every one in reach. (Not that I’m implying “ant wars” to be a cause for their perceived decline, just a pretty cool photo.)
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### Author:  [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2016, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451/7 "2016-12-01T13:25:31Z")
Sounds like the OP is mixing up some characteristics of fire ants with [crazy ants](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasberry_crazy_ant). The latter likes to invade homes and snuggle in electronics. Never heard of fire ants doing that.
The article **Crotalus** links to mentions something interesting: former multi-queen colonies are now single queen. The latter is the norm for most species. But when a new type of ant invades an area, the resulting colonies have negligible genetic variation which means that the offspring of different queens don’t recognize each other as non-siblings and therefore don’t go to war but just mix in with them.
An extreme example of this are Argentine ants which have formed basically one giant single colony in S. California.
Perhaps some mutations have occurred and now different colonies can spot the difference. This results in greater spacing between colonies and hence fewer mounds/acre. But once that happens, the population will again stabilize.
So, maybe the solution to invasive stuff like the Argentine ants is to bring in _more_ ants from the native range to introduce genetic variation.
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### Author:  [@Ionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ionizer)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2016, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451/8 "2016-12-01T14:35:44Z")
> [@ftg](#):
>
> Sounds like the OP is mixing up some characteristics of fire ants with [crazy ants](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasberry_crazy_ant). The latter likes to invade homes and snuggle in electronics. Never heard of fire ants doing that.
Fire ants DO like getting into ‘electrical areas’ of where there is cabling, etc. It was one reason the proposed Texas Supercollider was abandoned (per my friend’s Dad, a geologist on the project) and[a link to an article about it.](http://www.nytimes.com/1988/12/15/us/fire-ants-to-make-building-of-atom-smasher-no-picnic.html)
I grew up just north of Houston, and can remember fire ants getting into AC units and other outdoor electrical sites. They love those places, IME, though that was 35-40+ yrs ago. Just saying…
No idea on population increase/decrease, however 🙂
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2016, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451/9 "2016-12-01T15:57:13Z")
[An article](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-rise-of-the-crazy-ants/) says that crazy ants are displacing fire ants, and that droughts and hard freezes kill fire ants.
Have there been any hard freezes in Miami ?
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### Author:  [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451/10 "2016-12-01T16:43:13Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#):
>
> [An article](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-rise-of-the-crazy-ants/) says that crazy ants are displacing fire ants, and that droughts and hard freezes kill fire ants.
> …
So do carnivorous plants, as you know.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451/11 "2016-12-01T16:56:51Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#):
>
> So do carnivorous plants, as you know.
Displace fireants or die in droughts and freezes? :dubious:
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2016, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451/12 "2016-12-01T17:02:18Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#):
>
> [An article](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-rise-of-the-crazy-ants/) says that crazy ants are displacing fire ants, and that droughts and hard freezes kill fire ants.
> Have there been any hard freezes in Miami ?
If droughts and hard freezes were fatal to fire ants, there’d be very few of them in Texas. Unfortunately, they withstand both conditions very well.
And yes, fire ants are attracted to things electrical. When I lived in SE Texas, I’d sometimes see them entering the house through AC sockets. :eek:
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451/13 "2016-12-01T17:26:11Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> And yes, fire ants are attracted to things electrical. When I lived in SE Texas, I’d sometimes see them entering the house through AC sockets. :eek:
Was anything plugged into the socket?
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### Author:  [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451/14 "2016-12-01T18:53:13Z")
> [@Vicsage](#):
>
> Much fewer fire ants in South Florida where I’ve lived for 50 years. Less mosquitoes too. Less honeybees. Less flees, less ticks. Maybe its just that so much more land is paved and urbanized, but come to think of it, I’m not even seeing dragonflies over my pool anymore. They were common a few years ago. And the wasp nests I battled for years around my house also seem gone.
Perhaps killed off by the insecticides used to fight Aedes aegypti.
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### Author:  [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451/15 "2016-12-01T19:37:49Z")
> [@CurtC](#):
>
> Here in Texas, we got them in the late 70s - I recall getting stung by one the first time when I was a teenager.
>
> I have wondered if there are fewer mounds than there used to be, or whether it’s just me getting numb to seeing them. When I lived on a typical suburban lot in Plano, I got them all the time, but now I live on a lot that’s completely covered by big trees, and I don’t recall seeing a single mound in my yard in the 15 years I’ve been here. I suspect they like open areas bettter. Because they’re not such of an issue for me anymore, maybe I just don’t notice them as much.
Depends on where in Texas; they were in SE Texas as early as the 1950s, and they were imported into the US through Mobile, AL in the 1930s.
I don’t see them as frequently in N. Texas as I did in SE Texas (Houston/Galveston area). Perhaps there’s some sort of climate-related factor that makes a difference, and drier/colder areas see less infestation?
Anecdotally, it does seem rather weird that I can’t remember finding but maybe one or two fire ant mounds in my backyard over the nearly 10 years since I’ve lived in our house. Growing up, there was always a sort of continual anti-fire ant patrol- kids would find them, report them to the parents, who’d usually treat the yard with Amdro and dump a big pot of boiling water on the mound. Problem solved… for a while until more ants migrated into the yard.
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451/16 "2016-12-01T21:40:26Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#):
>
> Was anything plugged into the socket?
Nope.
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### Author:  [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2016, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451/17 "2016-12-01T21:58:06Z")
> [@Crotalus](#):
>
> Here’s a [story from 2012](http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/fl-fire-ants-20120325_1_fire-ant-petri-s-positive-pest-control-multiple-queen) about it.
Good link, with an interesting bit I never knew about Phoridae flies, which resemble fruit flies, that were intentionally introduced to fight the fire ants.
> [@wiki](#):
>
> Phorid flies also represent a new and hopeful means by which to control fire ant populations in the southern United States, where fire ants were accidentally introduced in the 1930s. The genus _Pseudacteon_, or ant-decapitating fly, of which 110 species have been documented, is a parasitoid of the ant in South America. _Pseudacteon_ species **reproduce by laying eggs in the thorax of the ant**. The first instar larvae migrate to the head. The larvae develop by feeding on the hemolymph, muscle tissue, and nervous tissue in the head. **Eventually, the larvae completely devour the ant’s brain, causing it to do nothing but wander aimlessly for about two weeks.[[10]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoridae#cite_note-FWST-10) After about two[[11]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoridae#cite_note-SFC-11) to four[[10]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoridae#cite_note-FWST-10) weeks, they cause the ant’s head to fall off by releasing an enzyme that dissolves the membrane attaching the ant’s head to its body.** The fly pupates in the detached head capsule, requiring a further two weeks before emerging. Various species of Phoridae have been introduced throughout the southeast United States, starting with Travis, Brazos, and Dallas Counties in Texas, as well as Mobile, Alabama, where the ants first entered North America.
**[BOLDING MINE] [Phoridae - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoridae#Control_of_fire_ants)**
> [@Vicsage](#):
>
> Much fewer fire ants in South Florida where I’ve lived for 50 years. Less mosquitoes too. Less honeybees. Less flees, less ticks. Maybe its just that so much more land is paved and urbanized, but come to think of it, I’m not even seeing dragonflies over my pool anymore. They were common a few years ago. And the wasp nests I battled for years around my house also seem gone.
I can backup this anecdotal evidence over a period of ~40 years. There sure are a lot of those things I used to think were just native fruit flies, though…
> [@ftg](#):
>
> So, maybe the solution to invasive stuff like the Argentine ants is to bring in _more_ ants from the native range to introduce genetic variation.
> [@wiki](#):
>
> In January 2012, a researcher discovered larvae in the test tube of a dead honey bee believed to have been affected by [colony collapse disorder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder).[[12]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoridae#cite_note-12) The larvae had not been there the night before. The larvae were _Apocephalus borealis_, a parasitoid fly known to prey on bumblebees and wasps. The phorid fly lays eggs on the bee’s abdomen, which hatch and feed on the bee. Infected bees act oddly, foraging at night and gathering around lights like moths. Eventually, the bee leaves the colony to die. The phorid fly larvae then emerge from the neck of the bee.
Whoops!
> [@dtilque](#):
>
> Perhaps killed off by the insecticides used to fight Aedes aegypti.
That particular spraying is very recent and the phenomenon being discussed has been happening for some time, but there has always been regular insecticide spraying to control the general mosquito population, so who knows…
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### Author:  [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)
#### Post date: [December 1, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451/18 "2016-12-01T22:01:22Z")
This additional tidbit, from one of the wiki cites, is interesting:
> [@](#):
>
> Plowes said fire ants are “very aware” of these tiny flies, and it only takes a few to cause the ants to modify their behavior. “Just one or two flies can control movement or above-ground activity,” Plowes said. “It’s kind of like a medieval activity where you’re putting a castle under siege.”
> **[Parasitic flies turn fire ants into zombies](https://web.archive.org/web/20090522005217/http://news.yahoo.com:80/s/mcclatchy/20090512/sc_mcclatchy/3231765)**
>
> It sounds like something out of science fiction: zombie fire ants. But it's all too real.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [December 2, 2016, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451/19 "2016-12-02T00:10:28Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> Nope.
Then there is no current, and no right hand rule magnetic field to attract them. Perhaps that is just an easy entrance, and they can chill out on current flow inside the house.
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### Author:  [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)
#### Post date: [December 3, 2016, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-ants-on-the-decline-in-the-us/773451/20 "2016-12-03T03:23:31Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> If droughts and hard freezes were fatal to fire ants, there’d be very few of them in Texas. Unfortunately, they withstand both conditions very well.
No it means they survive those events in Texas.
Drought is the amount of rain, but of course rock contains ground water and texas plants survive the drought and provide moisture to ants while there is a drought.
But your use of “hard freeze” in texas ?? Texas freeze is a layer of snow for a few days. A new england hard freeze is frozen ground down so deep for months. I dont think Texas gets hard freeze, so Texas is no counter example.
Florida… the ants like a Florida “Drought”. They don’t survive the season of water logged ground.
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