# Fire in the Hole **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 23, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-in-the-hole/453855 "2008-06-23T00:17:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2008, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-in-the-hole/453855/21 "2008-06-25T09:20:22Z")
As implied in my post above, I’d find that a lot more plausible (not that my personal opinion should mean anything here, anyway). I misunderstood **Carson O’Genic** ’s post #16 to be making reference to accidental fires. ---
**Author:** ![Carson\_O\_Genic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Carson\_O\_Genic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carson_O_Genic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2008, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-in-the-hole/453855/22 "2008-06-25T10:21:14Z")
When I grow up I hope to accomplish the coherent use of written language. No, Mangetout, the cite doesn’t tie 1860 to the idiom, but does refer to the use of explosives to develop oil. I first heard the phrase from my grandfather and his brother whose father-in-law was a driller in the Oil City / Venango County Pa. area. They both worked in the business as young men (late 19th-early 20th century). At the time dynamite was readily obtainable by anyone. “Well Shooter” eventually became a specialty, hazard playing no small role. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2008, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-in-the-hole/453855/23 "2008-06-25T10:32:12Z")
I’d imagine there was probably a fair bit of migration of explosives experts between the mining and oil extraction industries way back then. But the Wiki thing about it originally being maritime - ‘fire in the hold’ _has_ to be bogus, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2008, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-in-the-hole/453855/24 "2008-06-25T11:07:52Z")
[QUOTE=Carson O’Genic] I suggest looking for origins in the oil & gas drilling industry. [/QUOTE] I’m sure you meant coal mining… ---
**Author:** ![Carson\_O\_Genic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Carson\_O\_Genic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carson_O_Genic)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2008, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-in-the-hole/453855/25 "2008-06-25T15:33:32Z")
No, I meant oil well drilling, but the usage in the locale I mentioned would cover both, as coal was plentiful at the time, and still extant. However coal was virtually on the surface and readily available to householder via pick and shovel. The advent of powered excavators brought ugly strip mining and attendant run off problems. I am unaware of the use of explosives for extraction there. The area is home to one of the first long wall mining innovator’s manufacturing plants. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2008, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-in-the-hole/453855/26 "2008-06-25T22:49:52Z")
[QUOTE=Simplicio] Ah, you’re right. What’s a “port fire” though? Anyhoo, most of the other references seem to be from mining in the second half of the 19th century. One is a court case from 1785 but the text isn’t available for preview on google books, and the publication dates for at least some of the other texts in the search result are obviously wrong. I’m not sure how much mining there was in Kentcky in 1785, or whether they even had a court of appeals at that early date (before statehood, though I guess they would’ve had a court system as a territory), so I’m suspicious that this isn’t incorrectly dated as well. Perhaps someone has access to a law library and can check? Its the last result [here](http://books.google.com/books?lr=&q=%22fire+in+the+hole%22+date:0-1900&as_brr=0&sa=N&start=10) [/QUOTE] I think that Google books hit is from 1910 or so. Unless someone can cite some proof that there was any naval usage which said “fire in the hole” or “fire in the hold,” and implying it as a warning to others to watch out, then it comes from mining in the late 1800’s. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2008, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-in-the-hole/453855/27 "2008-06-25T23:46:58Z")
I know this is the complete opposite of rigorous, but the ‘fire in the hold’ thing strongly reeks of something that someone just pulled out of their ass - “hey! ships have a thing called a ‘hold’, don’t they - mebbe it’s supposed to be like ‘fire in the hold’ - you know - the hold - where they keep the gunpowder - yeah, that must be it!” But the storage space for gunpowder was actually called the magazine. And a fire in the magazine isn’t announced by someone shouting a well-worn phrase - it’s announced by a large, violent explosion in which the ship flies to pieces. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2008, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-in-the-hole/453855/28 "2008-06-26T00:25:25Z")
> [@](#): > > I know this is the complete opposite of rigorous, but the ‘fire in the hold’ thing strongly reeks of something that someone just pulled out of their ass - “hey! ships have a thing called a ‘hold’, don’t they - mebbe it’s supposed to be like ‘fire in the hold’ - you know - the hold - where they keep the gunpowder - yeah, that must be it!” If you look back up to my earlier post, I said that it sounded as if it _ought_ to be “fire in the hold”, if it were naval, but I don’t claim anything for it beyond the sound. I can’t recall ever seeing “fire in the hold” in print, although I’ve heard people say it (and, judging from this thread, so have others). I suspect t’s an “eggcorn” – something that _sounds_ right, but is nothing more than some sort of logical connection with no etymological grounding. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2008, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-in-the-hole/453855/29 "2008-06-26T07:22:46Z")
eggcorn, yes - that’s exactly the phenomenon I was trying to describe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-in-the-hole/453855.md?page=1)