# Fire on USN Submarine-$400 Million in Damage? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 7, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424 "2012-06-07T20:58:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424/1 "2012-06-07T20:58:14Z")
I was reading about the recent fire on the USS Miami. The ship was in drydock for major repairs-and a fire started (somehow). Anyway, the damage is estimated at $400 million-is it even worth repairing? Second- a submarine is probably constructed with the least flammable stuff inside (as is possible)-how could such a raging fire have gotten out of control? At lease there were no weapons on board, and the nuclear reactor was shut down. At any rate, how long will it take to repair the ship? Would it be cheaper to build a new one? ---
**Author:** ![Harmonix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Harmonix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonix)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424/2 "2012-06-07T21:10:38Z")
Wikipedia says the new version of subs, the Virginia class, costs 2.4 billion per sub. The U.S.S Miami is the previous version, Los Angeles Class. Assuming costs are similar, than yes, it’s worth the 400 million to fix it. I imagine alot of the money is actually to see if the sub is still structurally sound. Fatigued beams in a tin can built to handle enormous pressures seems like a recipe for disaster. > **[Virginia-class submarine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_class_submarine)** > > The Virginia class, or the SSN-774 class, is the latest class of nuclear-powered cruise missile fast-attack submarines in service with the United States Navy. Designed by General Dynamics Electric Boat (EB) and Huntington Ingalls Industries, the Virginia class incorporates the latest in stealth, intelligence gathering, and weapons systems. > Virginia-class submarines are designed for a broad spectrum of open-ocean and littoral missions, including anti-submarine warfare and intelligence gatherin... > **[USS Miami (SSN-755)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Miami_(SSN-755))** > > USS Miami (SSN-755) was a Los Angeles-class submarine of the United States Navy. It was the third vessel of the U.S. Navy to be named after Miami, Florida. Miami was the forty-fourth Los Angeles-class (688) submarine and the fifth Improved Los Angeles-class (688I) submarine to be built and commissioned. The contract to build it was awarded to the Electric Boat division of General Dynamics Corporation in Groton, Connecticut, on 28 November 1983, and its keel was laid down on 24 October 1986. It... > **[Los Angeles-class submarine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_class_submarine)** > > The Los Angeles class of submarines are nuclear-powered fast attack submarines (SSN) in service with the United States Navy. Also known as the 688 class (pronounced "six-eighty-eight") after the hull number of lead vessel USS Los Angeles (SSN-688), 62 were built from 1972 to 1996, the latter 23 to an improved 688i standard. As of 2022, 26 of the Los Angeles class remain in commission—more than any other class in the world—and they account for more than half of the U.S. Navy's 50 fast attack su... ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424/3 "2012-06-07T21:22:10Z")
I’ll have to ask my step-father about it. He used to do ship refits for the Navy, including subs, I believe. StG ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424/4 "2012-06-07T21:26:15Z")
If they dont repair it, the shutdown costs probably arent small either, so they’d have to consider those as well as any replacement cost given they arent built any more. Otara ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424/5 "2012-06-07T22:16:31Z")
Cleaning up the smoke and water damage to the electronics onboard will be a large part of the expense. It doesn’t take much of a fire to affect a lot of equipment. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424/6 "2012-06-08T01:05:55Z")
> [@yoyodyne](#): > > Cleaning up the smoke and water damage to the electronics onboard will be a large part of the expense. It doesn’t take much of a fire to affect a lot of equipment. Not to mention all the racks need to have the curtains and mattresses replaced, smoke soaks into fabrics and the foam used to make the mattresses and it pretty much can’t be removed. The seat cushions on the benches in the mess decks and any other cushioned seat on the boat, any other scrap of paper and fabric. Not sure what the faux wood wall panels are made of, but when they renovated my parents house after part of it burned down they had to replace pretty much every wall board of wood and wallboard because otherwise when the environment was warm and humid the whole place would start to smell of smoke again. The ventillation system would need work to get the soot and hydrocarbon and other chemical residue out or replace the vent runs totally. The Miami was mrAru’s last boat in the Navy. ---
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424/7 "2012-06-08T07:11:47Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Second- a submarine is probably constructed with the least flammable stuff inside (as is possible)-how could such a raging fire have gotten out of control? ex-submariner here. The inside of a submarine is absolutely jam-packed full of stuff that will burn. Pretty much every compartment has fuel lines or hydraulic fluid or oxygen or explosives and any number of other combustibles. Some of the nastier stuff is not present in dry dock but ships and submarines in dry dock are usually swarming with welders wielding welding torches and they are not always as careful as they should be. Fires happen quite often - at least, they did on my submarine. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424/8 "2012-06-09T00:36:22Z")
> [@kevlaw](#): > > Fires happen quite often - at least, they did on my submarine. lol ---
**Author:** ![Fir\_na\_tine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fir\_na\_tine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fir_na_tine)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424/9 "2012-06-09T00:43:16Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Not to mention all the racks need to have the curtains and mattresses replaced, smoke soaks into fabrics and the foam used to make the mattresses and it pretty much can’t be removed. The seat cushions on the benches in the mess decks and any other cushioned seat on the boat, any other scrap of paper and fabric. Not sure what the faux wood wall panels are made of, but when they renovated my parents house after part of it burned down they had to replace pretty much every wall board of wood and wallboard because otherwise when the environment was warm and humid the whole place would start to smell of smoke again. The ventillation system would need work to get the soot and hydrocarbon and other chemical residue out or replace the vent runs totally. > > The Miami was mrAru’s last boat in the Navy. From what the local papers are reporting, the entire crew quarters and control center were completely gutted. Took 14 hours to extinguish the fire. Most of the rack mounted stuff had been removed and placed in storage when the overhaul started. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424/10 "2012-06-09T05:41:12Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Would it be cheaper to build a new one? I’d venture a guess that the cost of repair would heavily weigh on when it was last refueled. The last LA class boat that got into trouble, with ramming a mountain at a high rate of speed, got its nose bent out of shape. Since the boat was recently refueled, at the time, they took the nose section off another boat that was going to be decommed and sent her on her merry way. For this one, the actual cost of repairs might be actually less and that 400 mil being an accounting entry for new buy equipment , when in reality, the navy is simply going to use a bunch of spare parts from other boats that they have waiting to be decommisioned and turned into coral reefs. My opinion Declan ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424/11 "2012-06-10T20:08:33Z")
> [@kevlaw](#): > > …welders wielding welding… That made my eyes hurt! ---
**Author:** ![Fir\_na\_tine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fir\_na\_tine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fir_na_tine)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424/12 "2012-06-10T21:10:11Z")
> [@kevlaw](#): > > ex-submariner here. > > … but ships and submarines in dry dock are usually swarming with welders wielding welding torches and they are not always as careful as they should be. > > Fires happen quite often - at least, they did on my submarine. Navy has issued preliminary report that fire started in a vacuum cleaner (shop vac?) stored in a closet. Probably safe to say someone vacuumed up hot welding slag and the fire smouldered in the debris for a while before being discovered. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424/13 "2012-06-11T00:12:14Z")
> [@Fir\_na\_tine](#): > > Navy has issued preliminary report that fire started in a vacuum cleaner (shop vac?) stored in a closet. Probably safe to say someone vacuumed up hot welding slag and the fire smouldered in the debris for a while before being discovered. And the 400 mil comes out of this poor guy’s paycheck. He’s gonna be in the navy for a\* long \*time. ---
**Author:** ![gunnergoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e95f7d/32.png) [@gunnergoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunnergoz)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424/14 "2012-06-11T08:36:19Z")
The Million Dollar Question (literally and many times over!) is whether the fire affected the integrity of the sub’s steel hull plating. If it did, the hull would doubtless lose its temper and with it the ability to resist compression at depth. Dealing with that would require something drastically expensive, like cutting out the affected section (sort of like slicing a hot dog across the middle of the long axis) and splicing in a new one. You as a taxpayer don’t even want to think about the expense of such a repair. It is probably more economical to turn the boat into a dockside static trainer and apply the repair money towards building a newer sub that would doubtless have improved capabilities over this one. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424/15 "2012-07-24T03:03:24Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I was reading about the recent fire on the USS Miami. The ship was in drydock for major repairs-and a fire started (somehow). > [@Fir\_na\_tine](#): > > Navy has issued preliminary report that fire started in a vacuum cleaner (shop vac?) stored in a closet. Probably safe to say someone vacuumed up hot welding slag and the fire smouldered in the debris for a while before being discovered. [Update:](http://www.wcsh6.com/news/article/208286/314/Civilian-shipyard-employee-charged-with-setting-USS-Miami-fire?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Cbc%7Clarge) It was arson. > [@](#): > > The U.S. Navy says the fire that caused some $400 million in damage to a submarine at the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard was deliberately set. Investigators have arrested a 24-year old shipyard worker named Casey James Fury and charged him with two counts of arson. > > _\_ > > In each case, according to an affidavit, Fury told agents he was anxious and agitated at the time and set the fires because he wanted to go home from work. The affidavit also indicated Fury said he was taking a variety of medications for treatment of anxiety and depression. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424/16 "2012-07-25T13:57:21Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > [Update:](http://www.wcsh6.com/news/article/208286/314/Civilian-shipyard-employee-charged-with-setting-USS-Miami-fire?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Cbc%7Clarge) It was arson. So now we know whose paycheck is getting docked. If they take out, say, $200.00 a month (so he can still pay his other bills) that’s, um, 400 million /200 /12…166,666 years to pay off. Unless there’s interest. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424/17 "2012-07-25T15:13:30Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Not to mention all the racks need to have the curtains and mattresses replaced, smoke soaks into fabrics and the foam used to make the mattresses and it pretty much can’t be removed. The seat cushions on the benches in the mess decks and any other cushioned seat on the boat, any other scrap of paper and fabric. Not to mention if any of those $2 million toilet seats caught on fire! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424/18 "2012-07-25T15:31:59Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Unless there’s interest. Aw, I think they should give him a break on that. He just wanted to see him GF, after all. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_G7subs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85e7bf/32.png) [@Rich\_G7subs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_G7subs)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424/19 "2012-07-25T16:02:49Z")
> [@kevlaw](#): > > ex-submariner here. > > The inside of a submarine is absolutely jam-packed full of stuff that will burn. Pretty much every compartment has fuel lines or hydraulic fluid or oxygen or explosives and any number of other combustibles. > > Some of the nastier stuff is not present in dry dock but ships and submarines in dry dock are usually swarming with welders wielding welding torches and they are not always as careful as they should be. > > Fires happen quite often - at least, they did on my submarine. Ex Submariner here too. Just wanted to add that back in the day (Mid '80’s) the inside of submarine hulls (nicknamed “The People Tank” ) and frames were covered with a foam insulation that ignited VERY easily. The kicker was that once it ignited it spread incredibly fast AND gave off deadly fumes as well. I hope they changed that for the more modern subs. What were they thinking? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424/20 "2012-07-25T16:04:39Z")
Yeah, that does sound like a less than optimum idea. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fire-on-usn-submarine-400-million-in-damage/624424.md?page=2)